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Prog: best documented genre on the web?

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tupan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tupan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Prog: best documented genre on the web?
    Posted: November 10 2011 at 19:05
Originally posted by Finnforest

Originally posted by moshkito

Originally posted by friso

I've never come across a website about a musical genre (and it's subgenres) that has as much information as progarchives. Next to PA there are some other websites as well and on the broad www.allmusic.com all genres are equally documented.

What do you think:

 
 
I have requested to help formulate some information into something that is more valuable and important as a compendium and diary of progressive music, but I think that PA's leadership is not interested in doing much ... just adding more headstones to the cemetary of names no one knows or will ever see, or check.
 
Seems like a waste to me ... but it's not my call.
 
.


I disagree with the bolded.  I love those obscure bands.  I do check them, listen, and enjoy having such depth of artists to explore.  Some of my favorite albums are ones which few have heard of.  And I'm not alone.  Admittedly our work is there for a small niche of fans, but that does make it unimportant or "a waste."  Listeners here connect with both well known and completely obscure artists every day.  That makes the work here very worthwhile to me. 


Yes, you're not alone, Ilike that obscure gems that few people knows. And one of the purposes of PA is to compile info about these rarities, to the future fans.
"Prog is Not Dead and never has been." (Will Sergeant, from Echo And The Bunnymen)

My blog: http://parastream.wordpress.com
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2011 at 20:04
Not alone?  That's putting it mildly.  Sure certain contemporary bands are important and undoubtedly popular - probably even more popular than Prog cornerstones as ELP or Crimson right now - but I think it goes without saying PA is a haven of the obscure, forgotten, neglected, slandered, dismissed, and generally whispered about in Prog.  Don't we still love that?  Isn't it still important?  Wasn't that kinda the point of starting such a place?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2011 at 23:39
People remember King Crimson after forty years....will they remember Justin Bieber after forty years?  

(Christ, I'm now over one-thousand posts!!)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Proggernaut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2011 at 00:18
I think prog 'enthusiasts' love to discuss the music, bands and more and this leads to a lot of on-line information. I also think Metal heads share that kind of passion, but metal tends to have a broader appeal due it's (general) lack of complexity. By that I mean metal isn't a challenge in terms of weird time signatures combined with epic song lengths and strange song structures.
I love a lot of metal and have found it's fans are as passionate about the bands and music as most prog fans are it's just that there are more of them so there is more information on the web.
 
I bet you no one is analysing Lady GaGa or Justin Biebers material in a similar manner though...
Proggernaut (Noun) - one who is exploring the endlessly expanding universe of progressive music.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Miracle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2011 at 00:37
It appears that way because you're interested in it. Try researching any other genre and you'll come up with as much, probably more.
>:(
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Conor Fynes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2011 at 02:23
Metal.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rdtprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2011 at 03:45
It's because prog rock listeners take time to listen, write, and think. And if Metal come close, it's because of some dedicated passion.Does this mean that there's no passion among prog listeners? No, of course...Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2011 at 05:35
Originally posted by Atavachron

Not alone?  That's putting it mildly.  Sure certain contemporary bands are important and undoubtedly popular - probably even more popular than Prog cornerstones as ELP or Crimson right now - but I think it goes without saying PA is a haven of the obscure, forgotten, neglected, slandered, dismissed, and generally whispered about in Prog.  Don't we still love that?  Isn't it still important?  Wasn't that kinda the point of starting such a place?



Indeed, we are the margins and footnotes of conventional wisdom condensed into an impenetrable never ending story of derring do and hirsute cojones in the face of unassailable odds and sods innit?Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2011 at 05:53

The best documented genre on the Interwebs is Classical by a very wide margin IMO - then they've had 400 years preparing the groundwork, so while the content was never specifically written for the web or collated into one place, it's there in vast profusion.

As to the periphery of Prog - that's what the forum is for should you wish to use it, though much of that peripheral information is tenuous and anecdotal because Prog was never, (and is still not), a subculture or a movement in the way the beatniks, hippies, punks or goths were/are - the music existed separate from the cultures it grew up from without its own branch of fashion, art/cinema/literature/poetry/sculpture/pottery/iconography/lifestyle/religion media or any of the other trappings and hanger-ons that would be called peripherals, and by that it is completely isolated and divorced from anything else that bears the epithet "Progressive".


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Post Options Post Options   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2011 at 06:11
^ OK but the cumulative early 70's music was not divorced from the cultures it grew up from which must encompass the beatnik, hippie movements at the very least. Most of what you describe as 'peripheral' Dean is for me a very recent phenomenon i.e the 'accessorisation of aesthetics' encompassing cinema/fashion/religion et al which as you adroitly imply, is perhaps the very antithesis of the Progressive spirit in the arts. Is that what you mean?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2011 at 06:21
Originally posted by ExittheLemming

^ OK but the cumulative early 70's music was not divorced from the cultures it grew up from which must encompass the beatnik, hippie movements at the very least. Most of what you describe as 'peripheral' Dean is for me a very recent phenomenon i.e the 'accessorisation of aesthetics' encompassing cinema/fashion/religion et al which as you adroitly imply, is perhaps the very antithesis of the Progressive spirit in the arts. Is that what you mean?
Kind of... 1969 was a significant year for the Hippy movement - it really was the end of the dream and prog music was a reaction to that, so while Prog grew out of the Hippy Movement it was a divorce in every sense of the word, which is why there is a seperation between the Acid/Pscyhe rock of 1966-1968 and what followed - if anything "subculture" leap-frogged over Prog to Punk with a closer correlation between the Hippies and the Punks than there ever was from Hippy to Prog (see, we don't even have a name for Prog fans - there is no Prog subculture) - Punk has more connection to Velvet Underground & The Factory for example than any Prog band ever did.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2011 at 09:53
Originally posted by cstack3

Originally posted by friso

I've never come across a website about a musical genre (and it's subgenres) that has as much information as progarchives. Next to PA there are some other websites as well and on the broad www.allmusic.com all genres are equally documented.

What do you think:

Is progressive rock the best documented musical genre on the internet?

Not yet.  I am not aware of any university programs focused upon prog music, while there are a multitude of programs in classical and jazz.  

I'd guess that trad jazz, with its historical documentation by publications such as "Downbeat," would have better documentation than prog.  Jazz is, after all, about 100 years old (at least) and incorporates highly studied musical forms including call & response African traditional music.  

Yes indeed.Even though prog has very dedicated fans who are doing a lot to keep the genre alive, jazz has more acceptance by the public at large, and has the support of many college programs, music societies, etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2011 at 09:58
Originally posted by Manuel

Originally posted by cstack3

Originally posted by friso

I've never come across a website about a musical genre (and it's subgenres) that has as much information as progarchives. Next to PA there are some other websites as well and on the broad www.allmusic.com all genres are equally documented.

What do you think:

Is progressive rock the best documented musical genre on the internet?

Not yet.  I am not aware of any university programs focused upon prog music, while there are a multitude of programs in classical and jazz.  

I'd guess that trad jazz, with its historical documentation by publications such as "Downbeat," would have better documentation than prog.  Jazz is, after all, about 100 years old (at least) and incorporates highly studied musical forms including call & response African traditional music.  

Yes indeed.Even though prog has very dedicated fans who are doing a lot to keep the genre alive, jazz has more acceptance by the public at large, and has the support of many college programs, music societies, etc.
Each journey starts with a single step: www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69556 Wink


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Post Options Post Options   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2011 at 11:41
Originally posted by Dean

Each journey starts with a single step: www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69556 Wink

Thanks for that, I stand corrected!!  

Some of the best prog musicians I ever knew came out of university programs, including guitarists Fareed Haque, PhD & chair of guitar at Northern Illinois University as well as Herb Schildt (keyboardist for Starcastle) and David Onderdonk, both from the University of Illinois.   While prog may have been touched upon in some curricula, most of the university programs have been very much into either classical or trad jazz. 

In an undergrad music class in Urbana, I did a report on the amazing "Night At The Opera" concert by Queen!  The classical instructor went "harrumph!!* and gave me a C for the class.  Ouch

Here's Fareed Haque performing with the California Guitar Trio, playing Mahavishnu Orchestra's "Dance of Maya."  Talk about fusion!!    Musical education would greatly benefit from more prog, as Jon Anderson proved with his quite amazing work with the School of Rock projects.  




Edited by cstack3 - November 11 2011 at 11:45
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Post Options Post Options   Quote seventhsojourn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2011 at 12:05
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by ExittheLemming

^ OK but the cumulative early 70's music was not divorced from the cultures it grew up from which must encompass the beatnik, hippie movements at the very least. Most of what you describe as 'peripheral' Dean is for me a very recent phenomenon i.e the 'accessorisation of aesthetics' encompassing cinema/fashion/religion et al which as you adroitly imply, is perhaps the very antithesis of the Progressive spirit in the arts. Is that what you mean?
Kind of... 1969 was a significant year for the Hippy movement - it really was the end of the dream and prog music was a reaction to that, so while Prog grew out of the Hippy Movement it was a divorce in every sense of the word, which is why there is a seperation between the Acid/Pscyhe rock of 1966-1968 and what followed - if anything "subculture" leap-frogged over Prog to Punk with a closer correlation between the Hippies and the Punks than there ever was from Hippy to Prog (see, we don't even have a name for Prog fans - there is no Prog subculture) - Punk has more connection to Velvet Underground & The Factory for example than any Prog band ever did.
 
Yeah, other than the hair and those long RAF coats and other combat-style jackets we wore. Wonder why that was though, that it wasn't tribal like the Teddy Boys, Mods, Rockers etc.? Or am I missing the blimmin' obvious? 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2011 at 12:24
Originally posted by seventhsojourn

Yeah, other than the hair and those long RAF coats and other combat-style jackets we wore. Wonder why that was though, that it wasn't tribal like the Teddy Boys, Mods, Rockers etc.? Or am I missing the blimmin' obvious? 
The RAF coats and combat-style jackets weren't that universal and the army-surplus has look been "adopted" by several generations of youth before and after (remember Sting & The Police setting the trend for ex-RAF fligh-suits... or the Boiler Suit as James May would have it). Whatever we wore it didn't seperate us visually from non-Prog fans at the time -everyone wore flared demin, t-shirts and bomber jackets whether they liked VdGG or T.Rex. I think we saw that whole subculture thing as something other people did (Skinheads for example). As to why, who knows - in the UK it was probably something to do with the "when" - this was the height of the Permissive Society - marred by the post 'Summer of Love'/Swinging Sixties realism that would ultimately manifest itself in the Winter of Discontent and the whole Punk ethos.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote el böthy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2011 at 19:21
Originally posted by tupan

No, I think heavy metal is a bit more documented than prog.

By far, I might add
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JS19 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2011 at 05:43
Originally posted by el böthy

Originally posted by tupan

No, I think heavy metal is a bit more documented than prog.

By far, I might add

By 12 year olds, I might also add
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Textbook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2011 at 05:51
Yeah, metal would be the most documented.

Rap still lacks a quality database site like PA. Really should have one, especially with a priority given to experimental/alternative stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote thehallway Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2011 at 16:00
Originally posted by Textbook

Yeah, metal would be the most documented.

Rap still lacks a quality database site like PA. Really should have one, especially with a priority given to experimental/alternative stuff.

Rap audiences aren't the kind of people who will sit and archive, document, compile and compare information on their genre. That's a generalisation, but it has some truth because as you say, there is no Rap Archive, or even many websites that deal with rap alone. Same goes with things like early rock and roll, or '90s boy bands, or those '70s variety acts that dominated Top of the Pops...... because not many people are dedicated to these genres so much as "just quite keen on them". These kinds of music have no geeks, no historians, nobody interested enough to argue about them or make polls. Prog does have such fans, which has benefits and drawbacks.



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