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Is the third wave of prog dying?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KoS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2011 at 02:24
Is the wave of taco trucks dying?
much more pertinent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamijo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2011 at 09:49
"all things must pass"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old_Wise_Owl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2011 at 10:14
Third wave is far from dying, very far. In fact 2011 has been the best year in a long time IMHO. Dream Theater, Opeth, Neal Morse, Pendragon, Steven Wilson to name just a few have all done strong releases this year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2011 at 12:23
Originally posted by Old_Wise_Owl Old_Wise_Owl wrote:

Third wave is far from dying, very far. In fact 2011 has been the best year in a long time IMHO. Dream Theater, Opeth, Neal Morse, Pendragon, Steven Wilson to name just a few have all done strong releases this year.

Although Pendragon were from the second wave (Wink), I agree with these sentiments wholeheartedly. It's been a fantastic year, and the genre just keeps getting stronger.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2011 at 12:37
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Old_Wise_Owl Old_Wise_Owl wrote:

Third wave is far from dying, very far. In fact 2011 has been the best year in a long time IMHO. Dream Theater, Opeth, Neal Morse, Pendragon, Steven Wilson to name just a few have all done strong releases this year.

Although Pendragon were from the second wave (Wink), I agree with these sentiments wholeheartedly. It's been a fantastic year, and the genre just keeps getting stronger.
I concur and I'm not even interested in DT, Opeth NM, or Pendragon.  For me I think this year will be remembered partly for Wilson, but all the other artists who might not be considered part of the third wave or even prog proper by some: Steve Hackett, Kate Bush, Discipline, Tori Amos, Radiohead, Primus, Levin Torn White, Herd Of Instinct, Corea Clarke White, Jakszyk, Umphrey's McGee.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Shrubbery Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2011 at 09:37
I know I keep talking about this but it just amazes me that nobody else is. Edison's Children has the strongest new prog album i've heard in years and I can't believe that nobody else is talking about it! 

It is like... the next step of Marillion... 

Like... take "Is It Really Happening?" by Transatlantic and make an entire album based around that song. 

Is it because everybody thinks that Transatlantic is going in the wrong direction and people are holding it against Edison's Children? I don't get it. 

This is the best Pete Trewavas album in decades. 

"Child of Edison"

Edison's Children
Marillion/Transatlantic's Pete Trewavas joins forces with Eric Blackwood
special guests, ALL of Marillion!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2011 at 13:05
Originally posted by MattGuitat MattGuitat wrote:

The third wave of prog is made up of many of the band s from the early to mid 90's all the way to now. But sadly, many of these bands are either on hiatus (The Flower Kings) or have lost leading members (Spock's Beard like 5 minutes ago and Dream Theater with MP). I would like to hear your thoughts on this and what may happen tot the future of progressive music.
 
I don't think so. The only thing that is dying is us and the opinions that we create and invent when we don't like something or other!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, instead of paying for a guru or church or social program!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattGuitat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2011 at 15:39
Originally posted by The Shrubbery The Shrubbery wrote:

I know I keep talking about this but it just amazes me that nobody else is. Edison's Children has the strongest new prog album i've heard in years and I can't believe that nobody else is talking about it! 

It is like... the next step of Marillion... 

Like... take "Is It Really Happening?" by Transatlantic and make an entire album based around that song. 

Is it because everybody thinks that Transatlantic is going in the wrong direction and people are holding it against Edison's Children? I don't get it. 

This is the best Pete Trewavas album in decades. 

Really? I love that song, sounds like i gotta check this album outWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kashmir75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2011 at 18:56
Originally posted by Old_Wise_Owl Old_Wise_Owl wrote:

Third wave is far from dying, very far. In fact 2011 has been the best year in a long time IMHO. Dream Theater, Opeth, Neal Morse, Pendragon, Steven Wilson to name just a few have all done strong releases this year.

Indeed. It's been a fantastic year for prog. I haven't heard the Neal Morse or Pendragon yet, but Steven Wilson, Dream Theater, and Opeth's albums this year were excellent. 

Heritage is actually my favourite Opeth album. 
Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TremoloDental Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2011 at 08:08
After the third wave, there will be a fourth wave. Prog will never die.

This year we had so many good albums: i don't like the last DT, the last Opeth and I think Grace for Drowning is overrated. I really enjoy Haken, Discipline, Anubis, Leprous, Neal Morse, White Willow. And this year also VDGG came out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harmonium.ro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2011 at 16:44
Originally posted by TremoloDental TremoloDental wrote:

After the third wave, there will be a fourth wave. Prog will never die.



The OP designated this "third wave" as comprised of the early 90s revival bands, so therefore in that scheme of things, the fourth wave already happened.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fuyuakiworld Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2011 at 04:34
Honestly, I didn't know there was a third wave, but I listen to mostly pre-'85 stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2012 at 00:01
Originally posted by peart_lee_lifeson peart_lee_lifeson wrote:

All I know is Beardfish is supposed to be releasing another album in 2012.
 
That's pretty cool. What I'd really like is for Rikard to do another Bootcut CD.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote treebeard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2012 at 10:46

I am so much looking forward to the year ahead, and the last half dozen years for me have improved year on year.
2012 looks like there will be
A new Anglagard album!
More from Phideaux, perhaps 7 1/2
More from the Tangent, a box set of some kind.
The first volume in a 2 part set from Big Big Train
A new album from Frost!!!! ****
Another album from Fred Lessing's "DayMoon"
As above another album from Beardfish
A new Marillion album, its been a while....
Another album from A Big Goodbye
Storm of Corrosion, a new album from Wilson and Akerfeldt 
And potentially the Flower Kings getting back together!
And Morse has rejoined Spocks Beard!

Probably lots more, but at this point I'd be well skint anyway...Smile



Edited by treebeard - January 04 2012 at 03:21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2012 at 10:49
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by MattGuitat MattGuitat wrote:

The third wave of prog is made up of many of the band s from the early to mid 90's all the way to now. But sadly, many of these bands are either on hiatus (The Flower Kings) or have lost leading members (Spock's Beard like 5 minutes ago and Dream Theater with MP). I would like to hear your thoughts on this and what may happen tot the future of progressive music.
 
I don't think so. The only thing that is dying is us and the opinions that we create and invent when we don't like something or other!

No....that will never die.
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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What do you think are the chances of a new band succeding with prog? And i don't mean the new prog sound like mars volta or porcupine tree etc. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2012 at 20:22
Originally posted by Lighthouse Keeper Lighthouse Keeper wrote:

What do you think are the chances of a new band succeding with prog? And i don't mean the new prog sound like mars volta or porcupine tree etc. 

Welcome to the party, LHK!  Good question, one that is not asked nearly enough on PA. 

I'm a semi-pro musician who's played in a variety of bands, ranging from original prog to cover tunes & even a Spinal Tap trib band!  I've had a few good offers to tour, but I never cared for the situations so I took a pass.  

If you never heard of the Chicago band "The Marquis," well, then, you can get my drift! 

In my hometown of Chicago, I'm seeing a decent surge of interest in prog, usually at the expense of musical forms which are being eclipsed including indie rock, speed metal, house music/rap etc.  We have some real jazz-rock fusion talent in town, and that seems to be doing very well (Chicago has a long & proud jazz history).  

In terms of "succeeding," we need to look at what IS successful!  Of the popular music going on, there is quite a bit of "spectacle" stagecraft, and the reigning queen is Lady Gaga.   If she ever wanted to do a live version of "The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway," I'd be first in line for tickets!!  

We see that nearly all popular/financially prosperous acts these days market danceable music with lots of dance visuals onstage.  Well...."danceable" is NOT an adjective that is usually applied to prog!   

Back in the 1970's, entire stadiums of fans were content to sedately sit in stoned bliss and watch "Relayer," "Dark Side," etc.  (guilty as charged!  Shocked )  Times have changed, the kids seem to want to boogie, so to be successful, prog needs to at least tap into some of that energy.  Yes did that with their single "Owner of a Lonely Heart," etc. 

To summarize, I think an emergent prog band that had really exciting visuals, a nod towards a more contemporary sound and outstanding musicianship and stagecraft could indeed be very successful!   However, for bands that keep recycling old prog formulas, I think there is limited chance for commercial success, unless they reduce their goals & are content to be small-scale acts with limited appeal. 

Thoughts, oh Wise Ones of PA?  


Edited by cstack3 - January 08 2012 at 20:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lighthouse Keeper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2012 at 12:39
Thanks for your reply, cstack3. And i agree with you that audiences now are attracted to dancable tunes more than technical compositions. Really, the only reason i want our band to be well known is so we can influence people and maybe even other bands to stray away from this de-evolution of music that is happening now. Like you said, i wish for people to sit and enjoy the music and not mindlessly dance around (except on some of our more funky tunes, you can't not dance to funk :)).
Of course, i also could use some money, but really only to buy me some analogue synths and a hammond, otherwise i don't care much for a life of luxury.

I understand these ideas may be quite out of reach for a band who just barely started playing, and it's very easy for a band from an obscure country to get lost among the overpopulated music scene today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2012 at 16:19
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:


We see that nearly all popular/financially prosperous acts these days market danceable music with lots of dance visuals onstage.  Well...."danceable" is NOT an adjective that is usually applied to prog!   

Back in the 1970's, entire stadiums of fans were content to sedately sit in stoned bliss and watch "Relayer," "Dark Side," etc.  (guilty as charged!  Shocked )  Times have changed, the kids seem to want to boogie, so to be successful, prog needs to at least tap into some of that energy.  Yes did that with their single "Owner of a Lonely Heart," etc. 

To summarize, I think an emergent prog band that had really exciting visuals, a nod towards a more contemporary sound and outstanding musicianship and stagecraft could indeed be very successful!   However, for bands that keep recycling old prog formulas, I think there is limited chance for commercial success, unless they reduce their goals & are content to be small-scale acts with limited appeal. 

Thoughts, oh Wise Ones of PA?  
 Hi CStack, well I do not share this opinion, the problem is not with the music it's with the general audience. I don't think that the way to follow is to further commercialize prog making it more danceable and energetic. What is necessary is that the general public gets more critical and demanding with what they are offered, but that's a harder task to achieve.
 
On what I do agree is that visuals are very powerful nowadays, and they can be used to convey to the general audience how great watching great musicians play can be. Modern popular music videos hardly care about showing the musicians play (no wonder, there's little if anything to show) but maybe some attractively edited video material of good musicians playing good music could help in the task of promoting good music.
 
Even if it seems utopia, we should aim to having again a young society who can sedately sit in stoned bliss and rejoice in good music. I think it just takes a paradigm shift, someday someone with a lot of public influence promoting good music and suddenly making it be "cool" again. Most things in human culture display cyclic behaviour so I don't loose hope.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2012 at 19:55
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by Lighthouse Keeper Lighthouse Keeper wrote:

What do you think are the chances of a new band succeding with prog? And i don't mean the new prog sound like mars volta or porcupine tree etc. 

Welcome to the party, LHK!  Good question, one that is not asked nearly enough on PA. 

I'm a semi-pro musician who's played in a variety of bands, ranging from original prog to cover tunes & even a Spinal Tap trib band!  I've had a few good offers to tour, but I never cared for the situations so I took a pass.  

If you never heard of the Chicago band "The Marquis," well, then, you can get my drift! 

In my hometown of Chicago, I'm seeing a decent surge of interest in prog, usually at the expense of musical forms which are being eclipsed including indie rock, speed metal, house music/rap etc.  We have some real jazz-rock fusion talent in town, and that seems to be doing very well (Chicago has a long & proud jazz history).  

In terms of "succeeding," we need to look at what IS successful!  Of the popular music going on, there is quite a bit of "spectacle" stagecraft, and the reigning queen is Lady Gaga.   If she ever wanted to do a live version of "The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway," I'd be first in line for tickets!!  

We see that nearly all popular/financially prosperous acts these days market danceable music with lots of dance visuals onstage.  Well...."danceable" is NOT an adjective that is usually applied to prog!   

Back in the 1970's, entire stadiums of fans were content to sedately sit in stoned bliss and watch "Relayer," "Dark Side," etc.  (guilty as charged!  Shocked )  Times have changed, the kids seem to want to boogie, so to be successful, prog needs to at least tap into some of that energy.  Yes did that with their single "Owner of a Lonely Heart," etc. 

To summarize, I think an emergent prog band that had really exciting visuals, a nod towards a more contemporary sound and outstanding musicianship and stagecraft could indeed be very successful!   However, for bands that keep recycling old prog formulas, I think there is limited chance for commercial success, unless they reduce their goals & are content to be small-scale acts with limited appeal. 

Thoughts, oh Wise Ones of PA?  

Aww, geeze, where to start?  Lots of good observations. 

If you're regurgitating old prog formulas I'm not going to be apt to like it unless just I happen to.  I don't go out of my way to expect that prog artists do something completely different.  I can be quite content with a fresh approach having elements of the good stuff that came before.  If you're making long songs or using complex times signatures just for the sake of doing so, you will likely be making inferior product.  This doesn't mean that you can't do so these days and still make worthwhile music.  Commercial success for prog as it occurred in the '70's is never going to happen again.  An artist is best venturing forward boldly and letting it fall where it may. 
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