Is the third wave of prog dying?

MattGuitat wrote: The third wave of prog is made up of many of the band s from the early to mid 90's all the way to now. But sadly, many of these bands are either on hiatus (The Flower Kings) or have lost leading members (Spock's Beard like 5 minutes ago and Dream Theater with MP). I would like to hear your thoughts on this and what may happen tot the future of progressive music.

As a young 25 year old, I'm constantly amazed that so many people appreciate this newer stuff - I guess it's called 2nd and 3rd wave for short. Personally-wise......I can't handle anything after 1979 really. In the '70s and '60s rock music was cool, and prog-rock was where the coolest most intellectual hip cat would be. In the period of 1990 - 1993 music again was cool because Kurt Cobain showed us his beautiful combination of balls and brains - which is what '70s and '60s music had.

clarke2001 wrote: If the "third wave" is dying, we will have "the fourth wave". It's inevitable. But time will tell.

I agree. The end of the first wave was followed closely by the start of the second wave, and how long was the gap in between?  Same with the second & third waves, of course.

Please can the fourth wave involve less of a focus on metal?  Nowt wrong with metal, but there are other elements to prog, and maybe the fourth wave can focus on woodwind or percussion or chanting or insect music

SongJohn wrote: As a young 25 year old, I'm constantly amazed that so many people appreciate this newer stuff - I guess it's called 2nd and 3rd wave for short. Personally-wise......I can't handle anything after 1979 really. In the '70s and '60s rock music was cool, and prog-rock was where the coolest most intellectual hip cat would be. In the period of 1990 - 1993 music again was cool because Kurt Cobain showed us his beautiful combination of balls and brains - which is what '70s and '60s music had. I don't put my faith in Roinne Stolt and some of these newer groups because I don't feel like they're taking me somewhere cool in my mind. This is the same rotten fate that YES has met - the songs become mushy, powerless and pretty much the exact opposite of cool - lame. So let's hope the third wave is dying so that some other insertion can fill the vacuous space that has basically existed for me since 1994.  True intelligence is timeless and will always be cool. And sooner or later people are going to realize this is why Beethoven and Emerson are still talked about, or they won't, and they'll rock out on a 2012 Gibson Les Paul they bought brand new from Guitar Center right after they get home from work adorned in business slacks and ties trying in vain to channel whatever it was that Hendrix channeled. And I do in fact see it going that way. We've all been entirely too casual about this progressive rock thing and it's now up to us to do it, write the music that needs writing so as to not drop the creative ball. Just get ready for the bad years because they are certainly coming.

This is interesting to me.  I was 25 in 1994.  I couldn't stand modern music, which included Kurt Cobain.  Well, actually, I didn't mind some grunge bands, like Soundgarden, but I couldn't stand Nirvana, and still can't.  Anything before 1979, as you say here, was just not anything I was interested in (I first heard  Dream Theater back then, and thought they were a bunch of Rush wanna-be's mixing in cheesy metal.........hmm, not much has changed, I guess ).

However, Roine Stolt and the Flower Kings showed me that modern music can be just as good, if not better than 70's stuff.  I was 30 when I discovered them, and they are still my favorite "modern" prog band.  They were one of the first bands I found from the so called 3rd wave, and as far as I'm concerned, the only ones still doing anything decent.  Well, up to 2007, at least.  Hopefully their new album will be up to the standards of the previous ones, we'll see.

Anyway, it's interesting that from pretty much my teen years until age 30, I was only interested in music from the 60's and 70's.  Everything else was crap to me.  After age 30, I find myself listening to a lot of modern music (well, 2000 and beyond, anyway) and a lot less 70's stuff.  Though thanks to this place I usually find one or two 70's albums a year that I enjoy that I missed in the past.

I think the 3rd wave is still going pretty strong, though really we're probably on the 5th wave by now.  I'm not sure there is any set way to keep track of such things, however.


Edited by infandous - April 12 2012 at 13:51

In my opinion in order for prog to do what it does best (progress), some of these bands will have to call it quits. Which doesn't mean the end, just a 4th wave would start.

Prog has more possibilities to it than most forms of music, so there is still the decent thing here and there. It's funny how people think there will always be a "new sound".

Smurph wrote: Let's hope the fourth or fifth wave is extremely avant-garde/RIO influenced instead.

Prog as I recognize it has been dead since the 80s.

I think the rest of the stuff is just alternative rock or metal.

Prog itself transformed into AOR in the 1980s and died alongside that genre. It needed to evolve into something more, but instead what's left of it wilted and calcified.

Prog really shared the fate of all 60s and 70s pop music. What's around today is working from a different vantage point, a different epoch of music. It's sort of b*****dized music. The so called prog today is very b*****dized, very different in perspective. Very removed from the main spirit of Prog and very attached to the superficialities of it.

A fourth generation would have to start from 60s and 70s ways of thinking about music, before they could create Prog anew.

verslibre wrote: cstack3 wrote: clarke2001 wrote: If the "third wave" is dying, we will have "the fourth wave". It's inevitable. But time will tell. We can only hope!  However, we should all realize that the business models that brought us music from the 1960's until recently are crumbling....here's a good article:   http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/feb/20/pop-music-business-digital-revolution   Everyone I talk to in the music business has been griping about how bad it has been for a number of years now.  The collapse of media like LP and CD formats, which were very prog friendly, isn't helping.  Prog was always buoyed by the album, not the song.   It is nearly impossible to support yourself as a full-time musician alone, and day-jobs, families etc. can weaken the musical concentration.   In the USA, many of the brick & mortar music venues are evaporating.  We've lost Borders, Coconuts, and many independent dealers, and now Best Buy is the latest chain to start feeling the pinch of this damn recession.   While I don't disagree with the above, I think the breakdown is progressing slower than hearsay relates it. Compact discs still comprise roughly 60% of physical music sales, and vinyl has enjoyed a nice resurgence in the last few years, with about 20,000 pieces issued in either 2010 or 2011. That may not seem like a lot, but for an "obsolete" audiophile format, that's a serious number. It's also thousands more than a decade earlier. The trend can be compared to comic books, where a physical "artifact" is preferable to a digital copy. As the ranks of the young 'uns take over, there is no doubt the ratio will alter itself significantly.     A number of new brick-and-mortar outlets have opened in the last several years, and while doing so is a risky venture, I can only applaud the proprietors' gusto. I feel that the shops that have been around for decades that can weather the storm will be the last ones standing, and will eventually do very good business trading secondhand stock.     Borders was a very nice store where I enjoyed browsing (and buying, and I don't even think I ever bought a single cup of coffee there!), but their pricing structure was outmoded. Best Buy plans to close many larger stores, lay off who-knows-how-many employees, and open smaller outlets. Surprising, since I thought the chain had girded itself with the demise of Circuit City.     cstack3 wrote: The big shows are dominated by ridiculous dancing routines, female vocalists and other non-musical attractions vs. Steve Hackett-like guitar playing.   That reminds me, I like to tune in to Palladia here and there, since they broadcast performances from High Voltage, Download and other fests. Concerts by Rush, Genesis and David Gilmour enjoy semi-regular rotation. One night, after, I believe, Genesis' Rome concert from a few years back (which I found myself enjoying a lot more than I ought to have) ended, a concert film by Pink started up. She's known as one of the newer wave of "girl pop-rockers" and she has always used a full band, so I figured I'd check out a couple songs for the helluvit.   It was funny to see the 'Funhouse' production consisted of heavily choreographed numbers, with the full rig of effects, backup dancers, myriad costume changes and so much movement, that I wondered if some spots had to be lip-sync'd, though she certainly was singing live much/most of the time. Her band was pretty solid, though, and I didn't know original Mars Volta bassist Eva Gardner had replaced Janis Tanaka. I was pretty impressed by Kat Lucas, who fills the rhythm guitarist and second keyboardist role, but is really there because she adds another strong voice to Pink and her two stage-left backup singers. But like you say, it was literally a big circus...or Funhouse.

cstack3 wrote: However, incentives for individual musicians to attempt to push into the field are lacking, and obstacles are huge.