Is Progressive Rock truly pretentious? |
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paganinio
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 07 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1327 |
Posted: December 16 2011 at 00:12 | |
Pretentious = lack of genuine emotions
But just because you can't hear genuine emotions in a record, doesn't mean the artist didn't pour their heart and soul into it. I cannot relate to much of King Crimson's experimental works, so I could say they feel pretentious to me, but other people including Robert Fripp himself may not feel the same about these works. To summarize, I think pretentious is a subjective description that's rarely informative or useful. It doesn't really tell you anything, other than the reviewer's subjective feeling. |
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26108 |
Posted: December 16 2011 at 01:54 | |
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26108 |
Posted: December 16 2011 at 02:00 | |
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kingcrimsonfan
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 19 2010 Status: Offline Points: 239 |
Posted: December 19 2011 at 11:18 | |
Prog rock is far from "pretetious" the way you are putting it. The reason I say this is because most prog bands make a record and do not give a flip about the record companies or are not trying to make themselves look like God like some popular artists out there. But I think prog bands should play music for themselves because if they play for the masses the music becomes the exact same as all the other mainstream bands out there. So being pretentious to the extent of not caring about what the audience wants in music is a good thing for the musician and proggies like us.
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QuestionableScum
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Edmonton Status: Offline Points: 245 |
Posted: December 20 2011 at 18:49 | |
Pretension is pretending to have much more sophistication, depth or complexity than one actually has. Prog at its worst can be pretentious in this sense. But there is no reason why prog need be pretentious. Alot of prog is pretentious, and a lot of it is not pretentious. Likewise, a lot of indie rock and folk is pretentious and a lot of it is not.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16148 |
Posted: December 22 2011 at 13:53 | |
Hi,
"... In any case, pretentious doesn't even work as an adjective in music, because music itself cannot exude arrogance or elitism...... and if it seems to allude to it, as I said, that's the listener's idea that they've projected onto the sounds. ... "
This is really true, specially when the emotion is on the audience side of things (when you're listening to a CD, for example), and not necessarily in the music ... you have created this emotion ... and it may, or may not represent the artist anyway.
This is one issue that is really difficult to bridge with "fans" that sometimes think they know what a piece of music is about ... and the same thing goes for the famous idea that "major" is happy and "minor" is sad ... another idea that got people convinced that something is that isn't necessarily so.
Scary day when some "fans" discover that "their" music is not what they think it is ... ohh yeah .... doomsday! ... burn the heretic!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: December 22 2011 at 14:16 | |
We'll take that as a "Yes" then.
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What?
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
Posted: December 22 2011 at 14:19 | |
Thanks for the interpretation Dean.
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
Posted: December 22 2011 at 14:57 | |
My music is not what I think it is???? Even with Dean's synopsis I am lost what Moshkito is saying, maybe it is not what i think he is saying
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 13 2010 Location: Dorset, England Status: Offline Points: 1433 |
Posted: December 22 2011 at 15:26 | |
No Moshkito post is complete without a tangential reference to: a) Revolution b) The philosophy of music itself c) Doomsday The relevance of c) is swept away by the image in my signature. |
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
Posted: December 22 2011 at 15:32 | |
That sig is from a great film indeed.
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kingcrimsonfan
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 19 2010 Status: Offline Points: 239 |
Posted: December 22 2011 at 15:34 | |
I may sound stupid but what film is that from?
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 13 2010 Location: Dorset, England Status: Offline Points: 1433 |
Posted: December 22 2011 at 15:35 | |
^ So's yours. But mine is there to represent my mixture of bewilderment and indifference over some of the strange things that get posted on this forum. |
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 13 2010 Location: Dorset, England Status: Offline Points: 1433 |
Posted: December 22 2011 at 15:36 | |
Dr. Strangelove (or: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Bomb) |
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elp
Forum Newbie Joined: November 30 2010 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 32 |
Posted: December 23 2011 at 00:22 | |
The power of Stanley Kubrick! RIP.
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 13 2010 Location: Dorset, England Status: Offline Points: 1433 |
Posted: December 23 2011 at 06:40 | |
Funny how we ended up talking about Kubrick in a thread about pretentiousness. |
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
Posted: December 23 2011 at 06:48 | |
^How did you make/find the gif?
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16148 |
Posted: December 23 2011 at 10:36 | |
I think it's YES on our part. I'm not sure that translates to the music itself. I'm not sure that we should super-impose our own views on the music. I can tell you my feelings, but tellin you how you feel, or Snow Dog feels ... is not something that I enjoy doing at all, and try not to do.
So, the question is ... WHOSE pretentious-ness are we discussing? Edited by moshkito - December 23 2011 at 10:37 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
Posted: December 23 2011 at 10:46 | |
Nobody has ever asked you what you think we feel. I presumed you realised, that things you posted were what you felt...and nothing more nor less.
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 13 2010 Location: Dorset, England Status: Offline Points: 1433 |
Posted: December 23 2011 at 11:00 | |
There's a lovely collection of them on Filmmaker IQ (a fellow blog of mine). You call them cinemagraphs, because they are actually stills, but with small sections animated....... either by using fragments of motion from the actual film, or clever photoshopping. No, I didn't make them myself! |
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