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Topic ClosedIs Progressive Rock truly pretentious?

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paganinio View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2011 at 00:12
Pretentious = lack of genuine emotions

But just because you can't hear genuine emotions in a record, doesn't mean the artist didn't pour their heart and soul into it. I cannot relate to much of King Crimson's experimental works, so I could say they feel pretentious to me, but other people including Robert Fripp himself may not feel the same about these works.

To summarize, I think pretentious is a subjective description that's rarely informative or useful. It doesn't really tell you anything, other than the reviewer's subjective feeling.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2011 at 01:54
Originally posted by thehallway thehallway wrote:

Pretentious is a word only ever used by people who, deep down, feel some kind of inferiority towards the subject they are attacking. For example, I doubt the Queen has ever called anybody pretentious, while many outspoken rock critics continue to use the word to describe any music they don't understand. And it's no bad thing that they don't understand certain music types, but it's bad that they blame the musicians for their personal inability to comprehend the music.

In any case, pretentious doesn't even work as an adjective in music, because music itself cannot exude arrogance or elitism...... and if it seems to allude to it, as I said, that's the listener's idea that they've projected onto the sounds.

I've never heard any musicians, in interviews or in their music, ever implying that their music is in any way superior to anything else. Some classical composers I suppose. But generally, people don't complain unless it's because they know the music is good but they just don't want it to be popular. If a band was overall just terrible, the critic would say so...... but the critic says pretentious when, for whatever cultural reasons, they don't want to like the music even though they can see that it is of a high-standard.

nail on head
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2011 at 02:00
Originally posted by paganinio paganinio wrote:

Pretentious = lack of genuine emotions

But just because you can't hear genuine emotions in a record, doesn't mean the artist didn't pour their heart and soul into it. I cannot relate to much of King Crimson's experimental works, so I could say they feel pretentious to me, but other people including Robert Fripp himself may not feel the same about these works.

To summarize, I think pretentious is a subjective description that's rarely informative or useful. It doesn't really tell you anything, other than the reviewer's subjective feeling.
Indeed the whole thing about emotions is that they are personal. How one individual reacts to a song or peice of music is their business. Its arrogant to assume that someone else should have the same reaction as yourself. Thats the whole problem with music critics in a nutshell. As Hallway says we only really need to know whether something is badly played or badly produced and what style it is. Thats about it. Emotional attachment to any artist or peice of music for whatever reason is purely subjective.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2011 at 11:18
Prog rock is far from "pretetious" the way you are putting it. The reason I say this is because most prog bands make a record and do not give a flip about the record companies or are not trying to make themselves look like God like some popular artists out there. But I think prog bands should play music for themselves because if they play for the masses the music  becomes the exact same as all the other mainstream bands out there. So being pretentious to the extent of not caring about what the audience wants in music is a good thing for the musician and proggies like us.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2011 at 18:49
Pretension is pretending to have much more sophistication, depth or complexity than one actually has. Prog at its worst can be pretentious in this sense. But there is no reason why prog need be pretentious. Alot of prog is pretentious, and a lot of it is not pretentious. Likewise, a lot of indie rock and folk is pretentious and a lot of it is not. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2011 at 13:53
Hi,
 
"...  In any case, pretentious doesn't even work as an adjective in music, because music itself cannot exude arrogance or elitism...... and if it seems to allude to it, as I said, that's the listener's idea that they've projected onto the sounds. ... "
 
This is really true, specially when the emotion is on the audience side of things (when you're listening to a CD, for example), and not necessarily in the music ... you have created this emotion ... and it may, or may not represent the artist anyway.
 
This is one issue that is really difficult to bridge with "fans" that sometimes think they know what a piece of music is about ... and the same thing goes for the famous idea that "major" is happy and "minor" is sad ... another idea that got people convinced that something is that isn't necessarily so.
 
Scary day when some "fans" discover that "their" music is not what they think it is ... ohh yeah .... doomsday! ... burn the heretic!
 
 
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2011 at 14:16
We'll take that as a "Yes" then.
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2011 at 14:19
Thanks for the interpretation Dean.Thumbs Up
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2011 at 14:57
My music is not what I think it is???? Even with Dean's synopsis I am lost what Moshkito is saying, maybe it is not what i think he is saying 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2011 at 15:26

No Moshkito post is complete without a tangential reference to:

a) Revolution

b) The philosophy of music itself

c) Doomsday


The relevance of c) is swept away by the image in my signature.






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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2011 at 15:32
That sig is from a great film indeed.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2011 at 15:34
I may sound stupid but what film is that from?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2011 at 15:35

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

That sig is from a great film indeed.

^ So's yours.

But mine is there to represent my mixture of bewilderment and indifference over some of the strange things that get posted on this forum.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2011 at 15:36

Originally posted by kingcrimsonfan kingcrimsonfan wrote:

I may sound stupid but what film is that from?

Dr. Strangelove (or: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Bomb)



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elp View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2011 at 00:22
The power of Stanley Kubrick! RIP. 
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thehallway View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2011 at 06:40

Funny how we ended up talking about Kubrick in a thread about pretentiousness.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2011 at 06:48
^How did you make/find the gif?
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2011 at 10:36
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

We'll take that as a "Yes" then.
 
I think it's YES on our part. I'm not sure that translates to the music itself. I'm not sure that we should super-impose our own views on the music. I can tell you my feelings, but tellin you how you feel, or Snow Dog feels ... is not something that I enjoy doing at all, and try not to do.
 
So, the question is ... WHOSE pretentious-ness are we discussing?


Edited by moshkito - December 23 2011 at 10:37
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Snow Dog View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2011 at 10:46
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

We'll take that as a "Yes" then.
 
I think it's YES on our part. I'm not sure that translates to the music itself. I'm not sure that we should super-impose our own views on the music. I can tell you my feelings, but tellin you how you feel, or Snow Dog feels ... is not something that I enjoy doing at all, and try not to do.
 
So, the question is ... WHOSE pretentious-ness are we discussing?

Nobody has ever asked you what you think we feel. I presumed you realised, that things you posted were what you felt...and nothing more nor less.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2011 at 11:00

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^How did you make/find the gif?

There's a lovely collection of them on Filmmaker IQ (a fellow blog of mine). You call them cinemagraphs, because they are actually stills, but with small sections animated....... either by using fragments of motion from the actual film, or clever photoshopping.

No, I didn't make them myself!




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