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Leprous - Bilateral underrated?

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DeSangre View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DeSangre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Leprous - Bilateral underrated?
    Posted: January 20 2012 at 09:13
Hi folks!

This is my very first message, but one I feel really compelled to post.

Here goes the story:

A couple months ago, I was looking for a new progressive metal album to listen to, and I browsed the best of 2011.
Two months ago, Bilateral was ranking pretty high on the list, I think about #10 or something. I heard some samples online and I found it really to my liking: in short, it became one of my favourite albums of 2011.

The following weeks though, it seemed to me like a FLOOD of corrective ratings brought this album down on the list almost "on purpose". When rating distribution goes so that you have "more 1 stars than 2 stars", I think that haters are at work. I'm sure this has already happened in the past with countless other CDs, but it really strikes me as odd to see Bilateral at #50.

So I was just wondering if you don't think Bilateral is a bit underappreciated, at least currently.

And if you don't know Leprous, well, I hope this message makes you check them out :D



Edited by DeSangre - January 20 2012 at 14:20
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rushfan4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2012 at 09:15
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DeSangre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2012 at 09:18
Hi rushfan,
I already checked that thread out, and if anything, it was a confirmation that I don't see this hatread for Leprous anywhere but on the rating :D


It's like the "invisible mob of 70s prog lovers" moved in to sabotage Bilateral :D
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2012 at 11:07
Okay - found and deleted two obvious cases of multiple accounts (Barbucha/Vaclav and moriten/majakast) - one pair gave 1-star ratings, the other gave 5-stars - as often said, these manipulators think they cancel each other out (they don't but that's another story, so the net result is now Bilateral is at #44 in the 2011 chart).
 
Six users show-up as "possible rating abusers" in that they consistantly give extreme votes (either 1 or 5 star only) - unfortunately in this case, 5 of these give 5-star rating for Bilateral and 1 gives a 4-star rating. I could remove those, it will lower the average rating a tiny amount.
 
Looking at the distribution of ratings for all remaining there does apear to be a slight statistical higher number of 1 star ratings than expected - how we tell which of those are genuine and which are bogus is anyone's guess.
 
IF I took some of out 10 of those 1-star ratings at random AND the six "possible rating abuser" 4 & 5 star ratings this album the rating would become 3.97, which may be enough to get it to #37 in the chart (I can't back-calculate chart position).
 
Sorry, but since I cannot know which 1-star ratings to remove, I cannot delete ratings at random (so I won't delete the possibly spurious 4 & 5 star ratings either).


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Post Options Post Options   Quote DeSangre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2012 at 12:09
Thanks Dean you did way more than I asked for. After all the "ratings" dilemma will never ever be solved completely, but yes, eliminating obvious abusers is always a step in the right direction. I don't really "need" Bilateral to be ranked higher than it is, I was really just wondering if anyone else did notice the recent downfall in rating.

I don't mind different opinions in life, I just hate shady "tactics" to lower/pump up ratings. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2012 at 12:25
Originally posted by DeSangre

Thanks Dean you did way more than I asked for. After all the "ratings" dilemma will never ever be solved completely, but yes, eliminating obvious abusers is always a step in the right direction. I don't really "need" Bilateral to be ranked higher than it is, I was really just wondering if anyone else did notice the recent downfall in rating.

I don't mind different opinions in life, I just hate shady "tactics" to lower/pump up ratings. :)
I have made a study of ratings abuse/manipulation over the past couple of years so I know it is ineffectual - data from this album was just another piece in my pie-chart to me, but people do seem to put a lot of effort into attempted manipulation for some malevolent reason.
 
This happens to all of the top albums released the current year - silly tit-for-tat rating wars that achieve nothing as every album is affected and every album suffers by similar degrees - by rights I should go through all the albums that changing Bilateral has displaced just to make similar adjustments, and then repeat that for all the other albums released in 2011 - but at the end of the day the losses and gains are minimal and don't mean a great deal.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2012 at 12:29
PS: as 3.91 is pretty good rating (really, it is) may I suggest a change in thread title to Leprous - Bilateral slightly underrated. Wink


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Post Options Post Options   Quote CCVP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2012 at 12:55
Originally posted by Dean

PS: as 3.91 is pretty good rating (really, it is) may I suggest a change in thread title to Leprous - Bilateral slightly underrated. Wink


The album is still very far behind some other releases from 2011, nevertheless. Some of which leave me astonished as I cannot understand how they can be so well-placed.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2012 at 14:28
Originally posted by CCVP

Originally posted by Dean

PS: as 3.91 is pretty good rating (really, it is) may I suggest a change in thread title to Leprous - Bilateral slightly underrated. Wink


The album is still very far behind some other releases from 2011, nevertheless. Some of which leave me astonished as I cannot understand how they can be so well-placed.
Understanding is not that difficult - any average rating or chart ranking that is not the result of either 1000s of ratings for each band or compliled by a typical sample of people voting for every album in the list will be unrepresentative.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Triceratopsoil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2012 at 22:03
It's OK.  I'm not overwhelmingly fond of it, but it's pretty funky.  The song with Ihsahn is awesome.

No, I haven't rated it 1*


Edited by Triceratopsoil - January 20 2012 at 22:04
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Meddle71 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2012 at 03:15
I have a burnt copy in my car right now, I love this album! Yes, I think it deserves a very high spot for this year's releases, but as has been said, the rating system isn't perfect, and it's still doing well.
Absolutely one of my favourites of 2011, up with Grace for Drowning and Visions.
 
If you sort by Tech/Extreme Prog Metal, it's the 2nd in 2011 after Fables of the Sleepless Empire (Unexpect). Even if you include Tech/Extreme, Progressive Metal, Experimental/Post-Metal, and Heavy Prog, they rank 10th for the year, so not bad!
 
One weird thing to note (for me) is that their first album, Tall Poppy Syndrome, has a considerably higher score, even though in my opinion they seem to have found their sound more in Bilateral. Oh well!
And everything under the sun is in tune
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CCVP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2012 at 05:30
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by CCVP

Originally posted by Dean

PS: as 3.91 is pretty good rating (really, it is) may I suggest a change in thread title to Leprous - Bilateral slightly underrated. Wink


The album is still very far behind some other releases from 2011, nevertheless. Some of which leave me astonished as I cannot understand how they can be so well-placed.
Understanding is not that difficult - any average rating or chart ranking that is not the result of either 1000s of ratings for each band or compliled by a typical sample of people voting for every album in the list will be unrepresentative.


Yes, I know Dean (but, nevertheless, I still disagreeTongue).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2012 at 05:37
Originally posted by CCVP

Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by CCVP

Originally posted by Dean

PS: as 3.91 is pretty good rating (really, it is) may I suggest a change in thread title to Leprous - Bilateral slightly underrated. Wink


The album is still very far behind some other releases from 2011, nevertheless. Some of which leave me astonished as I cannot understand how they can be so well-placed.
Understanding is not that difficult - any average rating or chart ranking that is not the result of either 1000s of ratings for each band or compliled by a typical sample of people voting for every album in the list will be unrepresentative.


Yes, I know Dean (but, nevertheless, I still disagreeTongue).
Okay Caio - be more specific - which albums do you think have been manipulated to be higher than you'd expect?
 
 
 
btw, as much as I disagree with SOPA, please censor the "f**king" in your sig - I'm old but not blind.


Edited by Dean - January 21 2012 at 06:01


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2012 at 05:46
I'm impressed Dean. I didn't notice it.
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote colorofmoney91 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2012 at 07:28
I dug Bilateral. I thought it was already widely accepted as pretty damn good, but I dunno, I guess it could still be underrated.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daggor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2013 at 00:59
Bilateral is one of the best modern progressive rock albums I've ever heard. Though the distinction of "Extreme prog" is a gross mistake. I would say that heavy prog or progressive metal is much more fitting. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Glide Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2014 at 06:16
I just bought coal recently, seems more my thing than Devin Townsend actually :)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote memowakeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2014 at 23:12
Bilateral is awesome, I am not a metal fan at all, but this album is diverse, exquisite.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Schnabeltier24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2014 at 10:03
The label "extreme prog" is definitely wrong, this album has a lot to do with avant garde metal, which is is not an extreme genre... 

But 3.9 is a good rating on PA, I would personally give it a 4. And I find Tall Poppy Syndrome slightly better.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ole-the-first Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2014 at 10:25
Originally posted by Schnabeltier24

And I find Tall Poppy Syndrome slightly better.

Me too. 'Coal' is a bit more interesting than 'Bilateral' as well, I think.
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