Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - John Mayhew on Trespass
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

John Mayhew on Trespass

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 2345>
Author
Message
TODDLER View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 2739
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2013 at 10:38
Originally posted by sturoc sturoc wrote:

Well its a difficult situation that can border on being read as pompous, egotistical etc. The 'core' members congealed their bond and were trying to bring another in. That' a very hard thing to do and unless your lucky you'll go thru many auditions or sessions to find that person. I've been involved in just this situ and its extremely hard to deal with,cause its your project. If you've only played in cover bands you won't get what I mean
I understand what you mean. Most original bands I worked with had a leader who took on the role of dealing with musicians who simply couldn't cut it. I would sit at rehearsals and observe the leader getting frustrated. Taking a musician like that on the road is a worse nightmare and even worse than that is an idea person like me being asked to coach the musician.
 
 
Writing compositions goes very deep an extension of yourself being put out there.
The Mayhew period is such a short amount of time to try and get comfortable with people especially when in a recording studio under the microscope and clock.

I see where Banks comes off as pompous etc in interviews and carefully wording his responses but with a slip here and there too.One of his famous remarks made reference to Steve Hackett leaving: "He just didn't turn up one day...I believe during the mixing of "Seconds Out"  "And so..we just mixed him out and that was the end of it"LOL and then he talks about being surprised because he thought that Steve Hackett's greatest contribution to the band was on Wind and Wuthering. He cracks me up...because it would SEEM that he feels ..either do it my way or no way. I do believe his determination to do things as he suggested was important to the overall sound of the band. I recall reading several times that when Hackett and Banks met, they really hit it off quite nicely because they shared a common interest ..which was the love for King Crimson. Phil Collins' first wife talked about Phil coming home from Genesis rehearsals and sitting around listening to Larks Tongues In Aspic until he went to sleep. I'm sure he liked the early Crimson too..but!...this is where Tony Banks laid down rules like..."Let's try not to sound like King Crimson" ....he probably made suggestions about the drumming sounding too much like Crimson and that it needed to be changed and most likely tried to get Hackett to follow that path as well with his guitar playing.That is my guess based on Tony Banks' mission to escape the trap of emulating other bands. It just seems like most of his dominating pressure revolved around making Genesis sound like no other.
 
 
 My feeling about all that is 99% of us do not know him personally or in a group dynamic so how can we honestly try to describe how he really is ?
Within any band, there are 'leaders' & 'followers'. And as we've seen with Phillips (for whatever the real reasons were) left, Gabriel and Hackett they choose not to follow and left.
The eras in question are completed,  times have moved on and that is history.
It can be a very strange experience. I remember working with a band leader who was very difficult with his demands. I traveled the road with him when I was very young and couldn't take his grief. Years later..he walked up to me when I got off stage and squeezed me so hard ..I couldn't breath. He said..."I have never worked with a guitarist that listened so well and I miss you" That was his way of saying "I'm sorry and love ya" Robert Fripp and Gordon Haskell did this when they crossed paths after not speaking to each other for decades. Bands are like families. Brothers and sisters on the road and I believe Tony Banks and Steve Hackett love and respect each other after all this time has passed. I believe through the hardships of Genesis, that they all still love each other.


Edited by TODDLER - November 12 2013 at 10:50
Back to Top
sturoc View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 04 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 117
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sturoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2013 at 21:34
"I believe through the hardships of Genesis, that they all still love each other."

that happens as one ages and gains further wisdom.

This has been an interesting thread and rekindled my historical interest of what occurred back in their late 60s-early70s era.
Back to Top
HackettFan View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 1311
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HackettFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 01:06


Edited by HackettFan - November 19 2013 at 19:38
Back to Top
Barbu View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Mrs. Henry
Status: Offline
Points: 9063
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barbu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 01:08
Why John Mayhew? Why? Ooooooooooooh why?
Have you seen them Khajiits?
Back to Top
prog4evr View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 22 2005
Location: Wuhan, China
Status: Offline
Points: 1336
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote prog4evr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 05:56

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

I know people who count it as the best Genesis release. Our dear pomodoro pal Jim from the Italian quarters wrote a fantastic 5 star review of it not too long ago.
It's been a while since I heard it last, but speaking as a drummer I don't recollect anything from it that would diminish the rest of the album though. Maybe I should give Genesis a spin one of these days...

Actually, also speaking as a drummer, some choice spots of imprecision in his drumming technique actually does diminish the quality of the album IMO.  For example, compare The Knife original to Collins' playing live.  Collins' precision and skill overrules - and enhances - the quality of that piece of music.  And, it is not the only one from Trespass enhanced in that way...


Edited by prog4evr - November 17 2013 at 06:03
Back to Top
Guldbamsen View Drop Down
Forum & Site Admin Group
Forum & Site Admin Group
Avatar
Site and Forum Admin

Joined: January 22 2009
Location: 42
Status: Offline
Points: 13672
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 06:06
Originally posted by prog4evr prog4evr wrote:


Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

I know people who count it as the best Genesis release. Our dear pomodoro pal Jim from the Italian quarters wrote a fantastic 5 star review of it not too long ago.
It's been a while since I heard it last, but speaking as a drummer I don't recollect anything from it that would diminish the rest of the album though. Maybe I should give Genesis a spin one of these days...

Actually, also speaking as a drummer, some choice spots of imprecision in his drumming technique actually does diminish the quality of the album IMO.  For example, compare The Knife original to Collins' playing live.  Collins' precision and skill overrules - and enhances - the quality of that piece of music.  And, it is not the only one from Trespass enhanced in that way...


I get what you're saying - I really do, but I must stress that I personally find 'mistakes' in music very charming - even when they're not meant to be there. I adore Collins and think he was a far better drummer than Mayhew, but then again Trespass would never have been the record it is with Collins behind the kit.
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams
Back to Top
prog4evr View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 22 2005
Location: Wuhan, China
Status: Offline
Points: 1336
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote prog4evr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 06:17
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:


Originally posted by prog4evr prog4evr wrote:


Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

I know people who count it as the best Genesis release. Our dear pomodoro pal Jim from the Italian quarters wrote a fantastic 5 star review of it not too long ago.
It's been a while since I heard it last, but speaking as a drummer I don't recollect anything from it that would diminish the rest of the album though. Maybe I should give Genesis a spin one of these days...

Actually, also speaking as a drummer, some choice spots of imprecision in his drumming technique actually does diminish the quality of the album IMO.  For example, compare The Knife original to Collins' playing live.  Collins' precision and skill overrules - and enhances - the quality of that piece of music.  And, it is not the only one from Trespass enhanced in that way...

And, I get where you are coming from on this as well. 'Trespass' has a charm that the other albums do not, and the inexperience of all members might well be the reason for this...
I get what you're saying - I really do, but I must stress that I personally find 'mistakes' in music very charming - even when they're not meant to be there. I adore Collins and think he was a far better drummer than Mayhew, but then again Trespass would never have been the record it is with Collins behind the kit.
Back to Top
M27Barney View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 1541
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 12:46
The band - snug and warm in the McPhail cottage - all huddled round a roaring open fire - I can almost taste the 12-string guitars picking out those delightful melodies. I don't think that the band could ever re-capture those naïve days of youthful comradeship - They listened to Crimson's ITCOTCK - and that led to a coalescence of ideas and slowly and surely the first symphonic progressive rock albums were conceived....It sends a shiver down my spine to imagine such ground-breaking days...Modern bands cannot now really get that same vibe....all they can do is put down homage to the pioneers....

Edited by M27Barney - November 17 2013 at 12:47
Play me my song.....Here it comes again.......
Back to Top
TODDLER View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 2739
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 10:34
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

The band - snug and warm in the McPhail cottage - all huddled round a roaring open fire - I can almost taste the 12-string guitars picking out those delightful melodies. I don't think that the band could ever re-capture those naïve days of youthful comradeship - They listened to Crimson's ITCOTCK - and that led to a coalescence of ideas and slowly and surely the first symphonic progressive rock albums were conceived....It sends a shiver down my spine to imagine such ground-breaking days...Modern bands cannot now really get that same vibe....all they can do is put down homage to the pioneers....
 
In the late 70's, Prog was sinking to the complete underground level. The ideas formed naturally in 1970 whether you were in front of the fireplace or traveling on a bus through a snow blizzard. But ..it's still music and not so much the times we were living in. Music could still be written with great diversity today if only something had not gone wrong decades after the original Prog empire fell by the wayside. Back in 1971 Curved Air sounded nothing like King Crimson apart from maybe a few forgiving notes. Most bands were so incredible at being diverse from one another and yet so distinctive in style. Unfortunately there were some "copy cats" that were not very creative. The ability to create fine original sounding music is still there today, but it is overshadowed by an attitude to disrespect Classical composers and insist that by dismissing them, real originality will form from you and in it's best. Do you realize how moronic that is? To be able to play Classical music to perfection on the piano and stand in front of the other teachers defending your purpose and belief? This is a concept that will not work. You can't walk around in life learning history to get your degree and then move on in life disregarding all your knowledge as farce, mocking it, and claiming it's bad influence prevailing over you to invade your own personal creativity. That's not how original creative music was written during it's process in other decades. This is like a moronic demonstration and denial of respect for creative composers from other centuries who laid foundations for music education. If people continue to spread this kind of attitude..the music will suffer.
Back to Top
M27Barney View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 1541
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 12:55
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

The band - snug and warm in the McPhail cottage - all huddled round a roaring open fire - I can almost taste the 12-string guitars picking out those delightful melodies. I don't think that the band could ever re-capture those naïve days of youthful comradeship - They listened to Crimson's ITCOTCK - and that led to a coalescence of ideas and slowly and surely the first symphonic progressive rock albums were conceived....It sends a shiver down my spine to imagine such ground-breaking days...Modern bands cannot now really get that same vibe....all they can do is put down homage to the pioneers....
 
In the late 70's, Prog was sinking to the complete underground level. The ideas formed naturally in 1970 whether you were in front of the fireplace or traveling on a bus through a snow blizzard. But ..it's still music and not so much the times we were living in. Music could still be written with great diversity today if only something had not gone wrong decades after the original Prog empire fell by the wayside. Back in 1971 Curved Air sounded nothing like King Crimson apart from maybe a few forgiving notes. Most bands were so incredible at being diverse from one another and yet so distinctive in style. Unfortunately there were some "copy cats" that were not very creative. The ability to create fine original sounding music is still there today, but it is overshadowed by an attitude to disrespect Classical composers and insist that by dismissing them, real originality will form from you and in it's best. Do you realize how moronic that is? To be able to play Classical music to perfection on the piano and stand in front of the other teachers defending your purpose and belief? This is a concept that will not work. You can't walk around in life learning history to get your degree and then move on in life disregarding all your knowledge as farce, mocking it, and claiming it's bad influence prevailing over you to invade your own personal creativity. That's not how original creative music was written during it's process in other decades. This is like a moronic demonstration and denial of respect for creative composers from other centuries who laid foundations for music education. If people continue to spread this kind of attitude..the music will suffer.
I think you misconstrued the thrust of my nostalgia! I am not dismissing the contemporary artist whether he be genius or a journey-man. However if you create an album full of 12 string melodies (feminine was suggested by some critics and connoisseurs ), people are immediately going to say that you are heavily influenced by early Genesis - I am thinking of big-big train here - they are trying (and in my opinion failing miserably) to create another flavour of English Symphonic prog - but since that is only my opinion if can be taken with a pinch of salt for those fans of BBT it's just not "my cup of tea". The early seventies was the launch of symphonic prog, that is a fact and no band currently can hope to claim to "launch" symphonic prog - that is the gist of my argument.
Play me my song.....Here it comes again.......
Back to Top
richardh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 11260
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2013 at 01:36
The early seventies was a unique time for music in general not just symphonic prog. Its more difficult for bands to get their stuff taken seriously anymore and as soon as that word 'pretentious' became a byword for anything from Jethro Tull to ELP and became ingrained in the music critic dictionary forever then Houston we have a problem. It actually amazes me that band such as BBT even exist. They do what they do for love not for money.. I appreciate that fact but how much the music impresses me is another matter.

Edited by richardh - November 19 2013 at 01:36
Back to Top
M27Barney View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 1541
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2013 at 04:49
I just used BBT as an example - and they are possibly the biggest disappointment that I have invested in (twas my own fault - I bought their first four CD's without hearing any) - I keep intending to give them a re-spin in-case I just listened in haste...mind you I have about another 30 or so CD's that I haven't spun once yet so - I have to get through the back-log first !!! ho-hum.
Play me my song.....Here it comes again.......
Back to Top
richardh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 11260
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2013 at 15:42
BBT are a good example though. I'm sort of on the fence about them. Pleasant but borderline banal at times although there are some lovely hooks. English Electric Part One is 'accessible prog'. If radio played prog anymore then this would do well.
Back to Top
genbanks View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2010
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 941
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote genbanks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2013 at 15:11
Yes, he didn't ruin the album, he did a good job, if I do not know nothing about Mayhew, Phil and all of this, surely I would have nothing to say about the drumming. Tresspass is a great album, with a an amazing, dark and enigmatic atmosphere.
Back to Top
Zenbadger View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie


Joined: May 19 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 84
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zenbadger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2013 at 17:25
Well said!

I don't think genesis were quite ready for a drummer such as Collins when they wrote trespass.

The drums work great and the album benefits from them not being too ambitious. Although I haven't listened to it in a while, I'm gonna dig it out!
Back to Top
The.Crimson.King View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 29 2013
Location: Olympia, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 2545
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2013 at 00:36
I like Mayhew's playing just fine and think it fits the songs well...I always figured they sacked him due to personality conflicts...like maybe he was on ok guy who couldn't stand Banks arrogance LOL
I'm using the chicken to measure it.
Back to Top
Tom Ozric View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 03 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 4372
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2013 at 04:29
Trespass is such a great album, I wouldn't change a thing on it.
Whenever I hear 'Stagnation', I can't help but think how spot-on the band was as a unit - every member just 'clicked'. Perfection.
Banks is outstanding on every level .
Back to Top
iluvmarillion View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 09 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 458
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iluvmarillion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2013 at 03:59
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

I like Mayhew's playing just fine and think it fits the songs well...I always figured they sacked him due to personality conflicts...like maybe he was on ok guy who couldn't stand Banks arrogance LOL

Just gave Trespass another spin today. The drum roll near the end of Stagnation is terrible. The drumming on The Knife is hardly better in my opinion. Have read nothing to suggest there were any personality conflicts between Mayhew and Banks. The fortunes improved for Genesis the moment Mayhew was replaced by Collins, so if Banks was behind the move to replace Mayhew, then I would call it good judgement by Banks to replace him.
Back to Top
Tom Ozric View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 03 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 4372
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2013 at 04:08
John Anthony's rather 'raw' production doesn't help things, especially concerning the drums.......
Perhaps Mayhew was playing material beyond his capabilities, but I don't think his work dragged the album down. Would've been nice had Collins joined at this point, but he didn't. Put it this way, Mayhew was a vast improvement on Jonathan Silver.
Back to Top
bucka001 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 16 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 616
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bucka001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2013 at 16:11
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

John Mayhew on 'Trespass' reminds me of Guy Evans on 'The Least We Can Do Is Wave To Each Other'.
...except that Guy played great (i.e. White Hammer) and JM didn't. Wink

Edited by bucka001 - December 03 2013 at 16:22
jc
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 2345>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.01
Copyright ©2001-2014 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.