John Mayhew on Trespass

Oh and I agree with the Mick Pointer POV - bloody awful drummer , and I saw him live half a dozen times....

For non Marillion fans... what does ^that mean?

< ="" ="text/" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0"> He's not the tightest drummer I heard but his job is fine on the album. It's not excellent but it's good.

This is an intriguing thread. I've pondered this myself at times. Trespass is among my top ten favorite albums, so his performance didn't do anything to disrupt my own appreciation of the album. I used to be a good amateur guitar player, definitely not a drummer. I do understand what another said about following with the rhythm rather than providing rhythm. However, Anthony Phillips and others were influenced by classical music, and classical music may involve percussion, but it doesn't normally have a back beat. The other instruments do normally provide the time (or stretch it freely). In my opinion his tentative playing suited the elegant ornate feel of the album. Trespass marked a transition from an acoustic heavy sound to an electric heavy sound, and Mayhew was there for that transition at an appropriate time (one might say the same about Anthony Phillips who shined more on 12-string than electric, but whose departure had nothing to do with limitations of playing ability - he was quite good indeed). I propose that if Phil Collins had put his authoritative drumming on Trespass, it might have been good in a different way, but it would not have had quite that same feel.

There's a very precious interview of John Mayhew on World of Genesis:
http://www.worldofgenesis.com/JohnMayhewInterview2006.htm

I like how Mr. Mayhew himself put it in the interview:
"What happened was that I locked horns with myself, really, and I thought, “Oh goodness, I can do anything to spoil or inhibit their musical flow” or whatever and deferred to the music itself and cut everything down to a very spare way of playing in consequence… I realize now."

bucka001 wrote:   John Anthony (Genesis/VdGG producer) discussing the problems with Trespass: "John Mayhew couldn't really drum; he wasn't giving them time, he was following theirs... [Trespass] was like a beautiful work, without the necessary foundation, and this was very much felt."

spknoevl wrote: bucka001 wrote: Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: I know that in a long term Collins was the best Genesis drummer (with the bonus of his great backing vocals), but I don't know if he would had done a better job with Trespass   Trust me, he would have...   You don't really know that; the band was still young and not all that tight themselves.  I'm not sure Phil could have added all that much more to Trespass.

bucka001 wrote: Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: I know that in a long term Collins was the best Genesis drummer (with the bonus of his great backing vocals), but I don't know if he would had done a better job with Trespass   Trust me, he would have...

Trespass is one of my favourite Genesis albums, so the drumming doesn't ruin it for me, but I do find the drumming quite tedious and it has seemed to me in places that the drumming is not quite on beat with the music.  The timing seems a bit off in, say, Visions of angels to my non-drummer ear as if he is following the song rather than leading it rhythmically.  A little off-beat can be interesting, but not in this case.  

I honestly never found the problem in Mayhew's performance.

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 23 2012 at 19:31

It's difficult to compare them since we only really know Mayhew from the rather subdued Trespass while we' ve managed to hear Phil in numerous Genesis recordings as well as his solo work and Brand X.  Brand X, especially, gave him a nice showcase for his drumming skills and showed a side of his playing that was really only hinted at in Genesis.  Trick of the Tail is the first Genesis album that really showcased Phil's drumming, to hear ears.