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John Mayhew on Trespass

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Trick of the lamb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Trick of the lamb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: John Mayhew on Trespass
    Posted: February 18 2012 at 06:59
Just wondering...
Am I the only guy here who thinks that Mayhew's drumming on Trespass is actually on par with the other members?
Basically every second review of Trespass says that his drumming ruined the album. I think that, considering the structure and arrangements of the songs themselves, he did a fine job. What do you think?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2012 at 07:09
It's hard being the shadow of Phil Collins.  His drumming didn't ruin the album for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2012 at 07:11
I think he's a very fine drummer but unfortunately, like most of the early Genesis albums, the detail of each members individual contribution is hidden beneath the fog of some pretty dire production. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Trick of the lamb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2012 at 07:16
I agree with you. Collins is far better drummer then him, but I still think there is some exaggerated criticism over his drumming. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2012 at 07:19
Yep, Collins is probably a superior technician but the italicised does not a moving performance make (on its own)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2012 at 07:20
I like the album and I like the drumming.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2012 at 07:28
I know people who count it as the best Genesis release. Our dear pomodoro pal Jim from the Italian quarters wrote a fantastic 5 star review of it not too long ago.
It's been a while since I heard it last, but speaking as a drummer I don't recollect anything from it that would diminish the rest of the album though. Maybe I should give Genesis a spin one of these days...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2012 at 07:41
I think John Mayhew may have suffered the wrath of Tony Banks.....when actually he didn't do any worse than B.J. Wilson or any other drummer who is asked to play "Visions of Angels". I mean what on earth are you suppose to do with a song like that? You don't want to play during the verse....but when you do  ...what are you suppose to play? Play a straight beat or a straight beat with fills?...which was what Mayhew did. There was nothing wrong with the way Mayhew played "The Knife" unless he was the type of drummer who had technique but lacked in the area of power.....which Collins had force that only he controlled. He had power on "Return of the Giant Hogweed" Did you ever work with a drummer who could play a buzz roll, a round house, a jazz beat etc....but had no ability to give a "punch" to their playing or the band they were playing with? Maybe that was his deal or perhaps Banks was just being himself as usual. Or maybe when Rutherford attempted to accent bass notes ...he may have expected a tightness or a  "lock it in the pocket" sound within the songs of Trespass and maybe Mayhew was not giving him that option.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Trick of the lamb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2012 at 07:50
Originally posted by Guldbamsen

I know people who count it as the best Genesis release. Our dear pomodoro pal Jim from the Italian quarters wrote a fantastic 5 star review of it not too long ago.
It's been a while since I heard it last, but speaking as a drummer I don't recollect anything from it that would diminish the rest of the album though. Maybe I should give Genesis a spin one of these days...

A great review! He explained it perfectly. Just what I was trying to point out here.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2012 at 07:51
His drumming doesn't ruin the album
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2012 at 07:59
The strength of Trespass is the songs. It's a great album, made by a very young band, still forging their identity. No member played badly, but equally no member will win any award for blistering, technically perfect playing either.

Collins is obviously a better drummer, that's barely worth debating, but in no way does John Mayhews drumming ruin that album.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Trick of the lamb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2012 at 08:05
Well,  I'm glad we all share the same opinion. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Finnforest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2012 at 08:05
Originally posted by Trick of the lamb

Originally posted by Guldbamsen

I know people who count it as the best Genesis release. Our dear pomodoro pal Jim from the Italian quarters wrote a fantastic 5 star review of it not too long ago.
It's been a while since I heard it last, but speaking as a drummer I don't recollect anything from it that would diminish the rest of the album though. Maybe I should give Genesis a spin one of these days...

A great review! He explained it perfectly. Just what I was trying to point out here.


Thank you guys, very generous words indeed. 

Nice to see others enjoy his playing too, when I read reviews about his drumming wrecking the album, it amazes me. 


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Post Options Post Options   Quote akamaisondufromage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2012 at 08:09
I have never noticed so it has certainly not ruined the album for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2012 at 08:26
To be fair to the others, he did not go because "his drumming ruined the album".

When Ant Phillips left, and they wanted to recruit a new guitarist, all felt that they needed a better drummer to take the band forward, given that all were committed to making Genesis work on a full time basis.

They most certainly did get a better drummer.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Trick of the lamb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2012 at 08:30
Originally posted by lazland

To be fair to the others, he did not go because "his drumming ruined the album".

When Ant Phillips left, and they wanted to recruit a new guitarist, all felt that they needed a better drummer to take the band forward, given that all were committed to making Genesis work on a full time basis.

They most certainly did get a better drummer.

I understand that perfectly. I'm just saying that for me, there's nothing wrong in his playing on Trespass, and a lot of people have been implying the opposite.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2012 at 12:07
Originally posted by Blacksword

The strength of Trespass is the songs. It's a great album, made by a very young band, still forging their identity. No member played badly, but equally no member will win any award for blistering, technically perfect playing either.

Collins is obviously a better drummer, that's barely worth debating, but in no way does John Mayhews drumming ruin that album.
 
exactly...
 
Too many people compare it with future gen albums... Mayhew's drumming is apt... doesn't magnify the music as Collins' would in later albums...
 
If you don't notice the drumming in a song, it's definitely not ruining it.... if you do notice it, then there is a chance that it's either excellent .... or awful.... and it's neither in Trespass
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Eetu Pellonpää Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2012 at 13:57
Remember I liked this album most from the complete quality & atmosphere perspectives, though few next records have great moments too.
Peeked what I wrote myself: "This is my personal favorite GENESIS album, and also their only LP which I still listen quite frequently. It doesn't even have Phil Collins on drums yet, which may make it musically little different than their later albums, where his influence began (sadly) to grow."

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Fox On The Rocks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2012 at 14:18
Trespass is very much different from other Genesis albums. It has a certain, unique atmosphere and the feeling of a young band trying to find themselves. I think John Mayhew is an excellent drummer, obviously not in the same vein as Phil, but he is still a great drummer. Phil brought a much more dynamic and creative approach to drumming and the band.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2012 at 12:23
Originally posted by Trick of the lamb

I agree with you. Collins is far better drummer then him, but I still think there is some exaggerated criticism over his drumming. 

I'm thinking we should say ... "was".

I much prefer the drumming he did in almost all his side things and work. The stuff he did with Eno is very good, the stuff on Brand X is very nice ... and the early Genesis stuff is ... beyond discussion, up to the live album and "Los Endos" ... I kinda think that Genesis lost a magnificent drummer, that was helping the music a lot, when he started singing full time ... I would think that it is not easy and probably impossible to do all that singing and drumming at the same time.
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