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70s Prog Drumming to Modern Ears |
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thehallway
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Topic: 70s Prog Drumming to Modern EarsPosted: February 24 2012 at 12:13 |
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Slightly related: I really don't dig the modern sound of the drum kit used on basically every rock/metal/prog release since the millennium. That thump of a kick drum, the really heavy "whack" on the snare, and in general a clinical, sterile, peaky way of producing the kit. I hate it, so in a sense that helps the older drum recordings seem better. What seems to have disappeared somewhere is the sound of a kit being played; it has turned into a mere rhythm generator (whether those rhythms are metronomic or really complex). I appreciate the immense skill of people like Mike Portnoy, but why, with him, do I feel like I'm being slapped 'round the face with the word "virtuosity", when with Billy Cobham I feel I am hearing a performance, complete with all the nuances and variation in areas other than rhythm? Why does the snare now make exactly the same noise every time it is struck? Why do the toms cut through everything with the urgency of a tribal warlord? Why does the kick drum in any rock band now induce a headache in me? A genuine question: is it the players or the production? And, does anybody else agree with me? |
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Horizons
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Math Rock Team Joined: January 20 2011 Location: Somewhere Else Online Status: Online Posts: 9788 |
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Posted: February 24 2012 at 12:21 |
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Right off the top of my head, Anekdoten have a very warm and earthy production style. The drums sound very human to me.
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Persuasion deflowers your sympathy.
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aginor
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Posted: February 24 2012 at 12:47 |
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Brann is fantastic, spessialy on Sleeping Giant, and he foes mad on Where Strides the Behemoth (and on the entire Remission albuM)i also like a drummer named Matt Cameron should be mentioned, put on some Soundgarden and focus mainly on the drums, as a drummer i think he is one of the best, but he is not often brought into discussion coos he playas in the cursed style of grunge were musicality is not the focus from the fans but the lyrics and feel of the music, Matts drumming is not in the focus of the listener, but if you focus on it he is really a power house, less so then Grohl, but with more fines and do more wow moments on drums, cause he knows how to do it, how to play offbeat ride or china while playing straight with the rest, which is common in jazz or jazz rock to manipulate the time-feel, have you ever mainly focused on Matts drumming Horizons
Edited by aginor - February 24 2012 at 12:48 |
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you know Procol Harum created their own nieche in prog in the 70s like theyr own symph prog sound which they molded to their own IMO, quote Aginor
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Horizons
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Posted: February 24 2012 at 13:06 |
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Spoonman and Jesus Christ Pose are classics, and have some great drumming. I'd give a better list, but i haven't listened to them in a while. I could bust out Superunknown and Badmotorfinger and name another dozen though.
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Persuasion deflowers your sympathy.
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aginor
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Posted: February 24 2012 at 13:12 |
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here are another great drummer track, solid Bonham thumper Edited by aginor - February 24 2012 at 13:15 |
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you know Procol Harum created their own nieche in prog in the 70s like theyr own symph prog sound which they molded to their own IMO, quote Aginor
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Horizons
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Posted: February 24 2012 at 13:24 |
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Drumming wise, not a huge fan of the second track - though overall it's an interesting song for them.
The first song you posted actually reminded me a lot of Zeppelin. I heard Zashmir, Dazed and Confused, and hints of Good Times Bad Times.
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Persuasion deflowers your sympathy.
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aginor
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Posted: February 24 2012 at 13:27 |
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Cameron also played in a avant-prog band listed in PA. Jon showed me it
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you know Procol Harum created their own nieche in prog in the 70s like theyr own symph prog sound which they molded to their own IMO, quote Aginor
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JS19
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Posted: February 24 2012 at 14:43 |
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See that's weird because one of the biggest turn offs for me about 70s music is the 'sloppy' production on the drums. I just feel more comfortable hearing that 'polished' more forceful drum sound.
Edited by JS19 - February 24 2012 at 14:43 |
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rogerthat
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Posted: February 24 2012 at 20:03 |
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This is exactly what I was talking about earlier, there's a huge cultural shift in the way rock is perceived. I don't know how and where it came to take root because I agree with thehallway; I do find Cobham more expressive and I accept that expression may entail some human imprecision and imperfection. If I wanted something cold and precise, I would rather listen to electronic music because it's often much more adventurous, esp electroacoustic stuff, in terms of structure, instead of simply piling riff upon bludgeoning riff. |
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rogerthat
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Posted: February 25 2012 at 04:18 |
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To respond specifically to your post now, I think drum equipment itself has changed. At least, that's what a musician friend of mine said...that it is tough to reproduce the tone of a Bruford or Bonham with contemporary equipment. But someone like Portnoy also has a very different approach from Cobham or any of the great drummers of that era. Their playing was responsive and fluid. Portnoy's style is ultimately much more rooted in metal and for him, crushing power is important. I think the problem, if anything, is DT's music is simply not extreme enough to warrant that style of drumming; I could understand Lombardo or Hoglan playing like that because the music calls for it. Take this performance, it seems to be rendered with altogether different sensibilities from the likes of someone like Portnoy and the drums sound quite beautiful: |
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thehallway
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Posted: February 25 2012 at 05:16 |
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^ I've seen that vid before. A very funky yet subdued performance. Maybe my predicament is that I just like jazz drummers. I'd take a funk beat over a rock one any day. However, I'm also a huge fan of what I'd call "beat drummers" (Starr, Watts, Steel....) My favourite rock drummer is probably Carl Palmer, who is hardly in the metal/hard vein I was talking about yesterday. Although he does bring A LOT of power to the kit. |
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rogerthat
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Posted: February 25 2012 at 05:25 |
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Ditto, I don't really like a loud drum tone unless the music is heavy enough to support it. I like that kind of drumming in metal, specifically styles like thrash or death metal. Definitely not in heavy metal or hard rock where I feel groove is more important.
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Ludjak
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Posted: February 25 2012 at 06:18 |
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I very much agree with thehallway's and rogerthat's posts, I never liked neither the sound nor the sensibility of modern rock drummers (which is also one of the reasons I find it very hard to get into most contemporary progressive rock). I've always preferred jazz or jazz-influenced drumming.
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rogerthat
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Posted: February 25 2012 at 08:40 |
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This is an example where I relate to modern rock drumming. Then again, AiC were very inventive and, like on this song, came up with great patterns rather than just going fill-crazy.
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jude111
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Posted: February 25 2012 at 20:24 |
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I know jazz drumming's been talked about, but what about other black forms of rhythmic music? Namely, soul and funk. If you were a drummer in the 70s, you *had* to be paying attention and groovin' to what Sly was doing, and Wonder, and later, P-Funk. (Check out, for example, Bowie's late 70s albums.)
Having said that, I know that more than a few prog bands had a total absence of "black" in their music. Genesis, for example. (This isn't a criticism: it's one thing I love about it - it's why their music was able to so successfully evoke an earlier period in English history, as well as other classes. I believe it was intentional.) Whereas, listen to DSOTM and WYWH and you just *know* PF was listening to hard soul and funk (and gospel too), and this is reflected in Mason's (under-rated) style. |
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thehallway
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Posted: February 26 2012 at 08:19 |
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I agree. And I adore funk drumming, it's one of the things that makes albums like Wish You Were Here really good. James Brown's drummer(s?) was excellent. It's almost the bridge between jazz and rock. Crimson had it covered, Yes to a degree, Supertramp for sure......... Caravan, ABSOLUTELY, and these tend to be my favoured prog groups. They have the interesting music, set to the grooviest beats. |
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TODDLER
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Posted: February 26 2012 at 08:53 |
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Wow! what a great post.
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TODDLER
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Posted: February 26 2012 at 08:54 |
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TODDLER
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Posted: February 26 2012 at 09:13 |
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The only piece which sounds close to "Black rhythmic music" is "Los Endos". The piece is performed by Phil Collins and Chester T. (?) (da?) and is very African, Latin, and very dance oriented. It's the live version from "Seconds Out" that comes to mind. Sly gave a lot of secret hand signals to the musicians on stage. The hand signals were combined with cues that were obvious to the audience only in the sense that they thought it was part of the act. This takes hours of practice where the band leader trains the musicians at rehearsal to memorize about 20 different signals.
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aginor
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Posted: February 26 2012 at 10:47 |
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Edited by aginor - February 26 2012 at 10:48 |
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you know Procol Harum created their own nieche in prog in the 70s like theyr own symph prog sound which they molded to their own IMO, quote Aginor
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