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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Textbook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2012 at 18:19
I mentioned them in the first post. I believe Anderson is a spiritual person but is deeply suspicious of any attempt to organise and control spirituality. From Aqualung to Roots To Branches, there is a small but noticable vein of anti-religion in Tull.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Truth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2012 at 18:19
OH FATHER HIGH IN HEAVEN
LOOK DOWN UPON YOUR SON!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2012 at 18:58
How about Peter Hammill songs such as the lie, and Faint-Heart and the Sermon? Also, there are certain lines in VdGG's "childlike faith" that make me think they're anti-religious, such as "though i see no god to save us, yet we survive".
I know the amputechture album by The Mars Volta album is concerned with religion, and I think they have a rather anti-religious stance, but making sense of their lyrics can be somewhat difficult.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2012 at 19:19
Also, don't we have plenty of black metal prog bands on this site? There should be plenty of anti-religious lyrics there!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earendil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2012 at 19:54
Many of these suggestions are against institutionalized or hypocritical religion, but it takes something else to effectively discredit religion. Many anti-religious bands (though probably less within prog) do nothing more than make passion-fueled generalizations because of a few ignorant people.  

But I think it's natural for many prog bands (especially in more extreme or experimental prog) to criticize Christianity because of the simple minded, regressive attitudes many Christians maintain.  I certainly often find myself closer to God listening to Tool or Unexpect than from any type of mainstream Christian "spiritual" (more accurately described as "self-pitying" or "self-gratifying") activity.

I believe that it's possible for someone to experience God more deeply in progressive areas of thought than in self-cripling, religious ones.


A lot of different music can make me emotional, but it's not too often that I really cry from it.  The title track on 10,000 Days by Tool is a sort of admission (if my understanding is correct) from Maynard that his mother's Christian faith was so genuine and true that she surely is finding heaven.  Despite Maynard's outspoken opposition to Christianity, he writes this:

Oh, what are they going to do when the lights go down
Without you to guide them all to Zion?
What are they going to do when the rivers overrun
Other than tremble incessantly?

High is the way, but all eyes are upon the ground.
You were the light and the way they'll only read about.
I only pray, Heaven knows when to lift you out.
Ten thousand days in the fire is long enough;
You're going home.

And now, this next part is the section that has made me weep on multiple occasions...

You're the only one who can hold your head up high,
Shake your fists at the gates saying:
"I've come home now!
Fetch me the Spirit, the Son, and the Father.
Tell them their pillar of faith has ascended.
It's time now!
My time now!
Give me my, give me my wings!"

You are the light and way that they will only read about.



To me (whether he meant it or not), this is the admission of an outsider to the personal relationship with God offered through Christ.

I'm not sure how relevant any of this is to a thread about anti-religious prog (or where it's even going), but there you go.




Edited by Eärendil - March 22 2012 at 18:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Textbook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2012 at 21:56
Earendil: Great post. Wings For Marie also moves me deeply, despite being an atheist. The "might've told a lie/ never took a life" part also brings a lump to my throat.
I don't think the song is any sort of admission on Maynard's part that he believes in Christ/god. It's more that though he is a confirmed atheist, his tribute to his mother who was a devout Christian is to write and perform a song that is wholly from her point of view and embraces her beliefs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harry Hood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2012 at 21:59
"Out In The Darkness" by Martin Orford is one of my favorite examples of this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CCVP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2012 at 22:20
Originally posted by Andy Webb Andy Webb wrote:

Oh, Dream Theater's In The Name of God is quite Anti-Religious


Anti-religiousness =/= anti-batsh*t insane religions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rottenhat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2012 at 13:10
Well, 5UU's made a go at Babylonian mythology with Marduk and Tiamat, on the first album. I think the band Thinking Plague is putting out a atheistic message, the latest album Decline and Fail being a good example. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dennismoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2012 at 13:33
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

The Christian Thread prompted to the Atheist Thread, the Religion Prog Thread prompted the Anti-Religion Prog Thread... I'm of a mind to start an "Original Thread" just to see what thread gets made afterward.  Tongue

There isn't an "Anti-religion" message in Rush.  It's not there.  Rush actually uses quite a bit of mythology and mysticism in their lyrics.  The closest thing to atheism you'll find in Rush is "Roll the Bones."

"Jesus He Knows Me" isn't a swipe at religion.  It's a swipe at religious commercialism and hypocrisy.
 
I must concur with my esteemed colleague, Epignosis.  Rush is certainly not anti-religion. If anything Rush is a faithful ever present warning about deeply idiotic people who put religous zealots in power and then commit atrocities.  In my great country, the USA, right wing chosen people of God, pious Christians, burned people alive for many various trivial and quite evil reasons. Nice "faith based" "family values"  there. Religious people of faith are burying young girls up to their neck, today, in the middle east and then smashing boulders into their skulls until they die. These murderers truly believe they are men of God.   Just saying you have faith or are God-like really means nothing outside of one's own dellusions.
 
The truth is the truth people.  Just because some person or group claims they have faith and are with God, does not
make them righteous nor good and historically shows, most times it makes them in fact very evil & horrific.  But lets not let reality get in the way here.
 
Considering Rush anti-religion is ignorance at it worst.
 
Dude, your thread is deeply flawed if you think to include Rush as anti-religion.  And yes, Epignosis was absolutely right as he pointed out that Genesis was satirizing the greedy fools that sell religion to week minded people. Genesis was not anti-religion. 
 
 
"Features distorted in the flickering light
The faces are twisted and grotesque
Silent and stern in the sweltering night
The mob moves like demons possessed
Quiet in conscience, calm in their right
Confident their ways are best

The righteous rise
With burning eyes
Of hatred and ill-will
Madmen fed on fear and lies
To beat and burn and kill"
 
I say:     Thank God for RUSH.
 
Oh yeah, and call Ian Anderson a heretic too, for what he wrote about the bloody Church of England, in Aqualung...
But first feel free to:
 
- Get your head out of your ass
- Get a clue as to what Ian was really sayin
- Put down your little propaganda books and read some history and lean about all the atrocities commited by The    Church of England
 
Thank you for your time.

 





Edited by dennismoore - March 02 2012 at 13:38
"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dennismoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2012 at 14:26
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

From what I can tell, for Rush, bashing religion is below them.  I think their lyrics are mostly impressive.
 
Dude, I am totally agreeing with you two times in this thread.  Is that normal???Confused
 
Seriously, out of all the music I listen too I believe Rush (Neil's lyrics) to have the most intellectual honesty in their songs.
 
I LOVE YES, the most of all, but....  "shiny flying purple wolfhound????  Are you kidding???LOL LOL LOL
 
Also: any Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Christian can write the cliched arrongant condescending blather that Neal Morse has been writing lately.   For example, imagine the following lyric with a nice prog 5/4 beat:
 
"Oh, I was a secular nothing, I was worthless, I was lost, but now I am found!  Now I am everything, Now I am God-Like, now I am saved.  Too bad for all you secular losers,  you are nothing like me, me that is so blessed and perfect.  I am going to Heaven. I am going to Heaven.  La La La."  oh and don't forget to use the world "prodigal" in every other song you write, that is real original.
 
I will stick with RUSH lyrics to keep me humble, thank you.
 
Oh, if anyboy thinks "I" am anti-religion, sorry...
 
I am Roman Catholic Big smile(some think that is worse than anti-religion, I know, my evangelical friends have told me so.).   But... I do not think I am perfect, chosen or saved and you being a possible Jew, Muslim, Buddhist or whatever are an unsaved, pathetic, lost wretch,unlike what my self-rightous brethern seem to believe.
 
Yipes, this thread really brought out the beast in me.  Perhaps cause the wife & I just saw Benicio Del Toro in The Werewolf, last night???  Wink
 
Waay back....some dude, called RUSH anti-religion, so that got me going.  Knowing the "religion" crowd, if RUSH is anti-religion I think I will chose RUSH.
 
I will choose Free Will.
 
"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ambient Hurricanes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2012 at 15:30
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:


If you are in the image of God, does that mean you are everywhere at once?  What does it actually mean to be made "in the image of God?"

 
"So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female he created them."
 
I don't have all the answers, but the best I can explain the image of God is: we were created specially, given immortal souls, and made to reflect God's attributes.  This doesn't mean that we are omnipotent or omnipresent, but that, because our Creator is rational, emotional, and relational, we are rational, emotional, and relational creatures (to give a few examples).  Because we are made in the image of our Creator, we subcreate under Him, using His gifts.  We do this in our music, stories, art, etc.  God, who is in dominion over all things, also made us in His image by giving us dominion over the earth.  When man fell, he lost that image, but God is now restoring it in us, and will complete it on the last day.
 
Note: I use the word "man" to mean all of mankind, because that's how it's used in Scripture when discussing this.  I do not mean to exclude women from the image of God.
In blood, he's writing the lyrics of a brand new tune.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harry Hood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2012 at 17:32
Today I learned about the Dan Swano sideproject known as Infestdead.  Brutally technical death metal paying tribute to bands like Deicide and taking anti-christian sentiment as far as it can go to it's natural conclusion. Featuring classic song titles such as "JesuSatan", "Christian Genocide", "Save Me From The Hands Of Christ", and "Anti-Christian Song #37". Their logo is an upside down cross inside a pentagram.





Edited by Harry Hood - March 02 2012 at 17:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Garden of Dreams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2012 at 18:33
Originally posted by dennismoore dennismoore wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

The Christian Thread prompted to the Atheist Thread, the Religion Prog Thread prompted the Anti-Religion Prog Thread... I'm of a mind to start an "Original Thread" just to see what thread gets made afterward.  Tongue

There isn't an "Anti-religion" message in Rush.  It's not there.  Rush actually uses quite a bit of mythology and mysticism in their lyrics.  The closest thing to atheism you'll find in Rush is "Roll the Bones."

"Jesus He Knows Me" isn't a swipe at religion.  It's a swipe at religious commercialism and hypocrisy.

 Considering Rush anti-religion is ignorance at it worst.
 

That is true. Rush are not anti-religious. They do not criticize any actual faith in religions but  rather hypocrisy and religious establishments. However, based on the lyrics in Armor and Sword and Faithless, I would say that they are atheist, or at least Neil Peart is atheist.

Come to think of it, I don't think I have encountered any prog songs that bash the actual faith of a specific religion .  
Just give it all an hour by the concrete lake.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2012 at 18:33
Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:


If you are in the image of God, does that mean you are everywhere at once?  What does it actually mean to be made "in the image of God?"

 
"So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female he created them."
 
I don't have all the answers, but the best I can explain the image of God is: we were created specially, given immortal souls, and made to reflect God's attributes.  This doesn't mean that we are omnipotent or omnipresent, but that, because our Creator is rational, emotional, and relational, we are rational, emotional, and relational creatures (to give a few examples).  Because we are made in the image of our Creator, we subcreate under Him, using His gifts.  We do this in our music, stories, art, etc.  God, who is in dominion over all things, also made us in His image by giving us dominion over the earth.  When man fell, he lost that image, but God is now restoring it in us, and will complete it on the last day.
 
Note: I use the word "man" to mean all of mankind, because that's how it's used in Scripture when discussing this.  I do not mean to exclude women from the image of God.


I may respond to this in The Christian Thread, so as not to derail this one. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2012 at 10:44
I'm still pondering the whole if we were created by a creator thing then who created the creator thing.  In the end it doesn't matter.  What does is how you treat your fellow people and other living things.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2012 at 11:01
Originally posted by Eärendil Eärendil wrote:

Many of these suggestions are against institutionalized or hypocritical religion, but it takes something else to effectively discredit religion. Many anti-religious bands (though probably less within prog) do nothing more than make passion-fueled generalizations because of a few ignorant people.  

But I think it's natural for many prog bands (especially in more extreme or experimental prog) to criticize Christianity because of the simple minded, regressive attitudes many Christians maintain.  I certainly often find myself closer to God listening to Tool or Sleepytime Gorilla Museum than from any type of mainstream Christian "spiritual" (more accurately described as "self-pitying" or "self-gratifying") activity.

I believe that it's possible for someone to experience God more deeply in progressive areas of thought than in self-cripling, religious ones.


A lot of different music can make me emotional, but it's not too often that I really cry from it.  The title track on 10,000 Days by Tool is a sort of admission (if my understanding is correct) from Maynard that his mother's Christian faith was so genuine and true that she surely is finding heaven.  Despite Maynard's outspoken opposition to Christianity, he writes this:

Oh, what are they going to do when the lights go down
Without you to guide them all to Zion?
What are they going to do when the rivers overrun
Other than tremble incessantly?

High is the way, but all eyes are upon the ground.
You were the light and the way they'll only read about.
I only pray, Heaven knows when to lift you out.
Ten thousand days in the fire is long enough;
You're going home.

And now, this next part is the section that has made me weep on multiple occasions...

You're the only one who can hold your head up high,
Shake your fists at the gates saying:
"I've come home now!
Fetch me the Spirit, the Son, and the Father.
Tell them their pillar of faith has ascended.
It's time now!
My time now!
Give me my, give me my wings!"

You are the light and way that they will only read about.



To me (whether he meant it or not), this is the admission of an outsider to the personal relationship with God offered through Christ.

I'm not sure how relevant any of this is to a thread about anti-religious prog (or where it's even going), but there you go.




Very perceptive post. Let's face it, the Bible, irrespective of your spiritual orientation, is still one of the best roadmaps to traverse the vagaries of the human psyche that has ever been devised..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2012 at 11:10
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

the Bible, irrespective of your spiritual orientation, is still one of the best roadmaps to traverse the vagaries of the human psyche that has ever been devised..

Not entirely sure what you are getting at but it has its good things to say, still it is a cobbled together and translated text often contradictory.  People who profess to be christian pick and choose what parts they want to hold true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2012 at 11:25
^ Yeah OK point taken Slarti. All I meant was that everything we respond to and hunger for re order and symmetry is catered for: dark/light - good/evil - mercy/cruelty - crime/punishment - grace/perdition - individual/society - mores/licentiousness etc It's an A to Z of human frailty and the commensurate thirst for a codified ethics (no-matter how flawed)

BTW I'm an atheist but re the interpretation by extreme wackos - you don't blame the composer when the pianist hits a bum note innit?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2012 at 11:27
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

People who profess to be christian pick and choose what parts they want to hold true.


Some do.  I don't.  I just know what parts don't apply to me (for example, I'm not an Israelite, so therefore I am not a part of God's explicit covenant with Israel).  Context is paramount.
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