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Libertarian Thread # 3: Liberty will never die

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thellama73 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thellama73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2013 at 13:10
I don't know, I've heard nothing but good things about Iceland.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2013 at 13:13
And Russia shouldn't be bad, though in hands of a mob government.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2013 at 13:25
Well, you know, I can't stand cold, even my current living place Belgium is f*k cold for my taste. Just 3 or 4 pleasant months in the year...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2013 at 13:31
If he goes to Quito, Quito is quite cold at night and perfect in the mornings. Temperatures range between 8 and 24 C. Now the coastal region is a different story.

I love the cold though. Yet I live in FL .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2013 at 15:14
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2013 at 15:32
The uncensored video is rough stuff.  Thumbs Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2013 at 18:03
Criminal animals. Not the dog of course.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manofmystery Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2013 at 10:57
Looks like I'll be spending part of my "independence Day" writing a check to the government for a "speeding" ticket. Honestly, on a wide open country road with no civilization why would there be a 55 mph limit? Speed limits a arbitrary rubbish put in place purely to scam people out of their hard earned cash.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2013 at 14:34
I hate speed fines too, I have never had a driving accident, meaning involving others, I have had quite a few crashes, including some serious ones, riding my motorbike, but all of them alone, not crashing with anyone else, but I'm quite sure I have paid much more in speed fines than in normal traffic taxes Ouch
It's a tricky subject I reckon, but for sure the US speed limit of 55 mph is ridiculous, thank god I don't live there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ambient Hurricanes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2013 at 14:56
^It's not 55 everywhere; interstate speeds get up to 70/75 or even 80 in some states but 55 is pretty standard for country highways.

But yes, speeding tickets are stupid, many drivers are completely safe going 15-20 mph over the posted speed limit.  If you drive faster than you can handle and get in a wreck then you should have to pay the consequences (and they could be steep if other drivers are involved and you are at-fault) but the penalty for that would be heavy enough to be a sufficient deterrent to reckless driving. 
In blood, he's writing the lyrics of a brand new tune.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jude111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2013 at 20:56
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Yes I'm curious too. Of course he did not board on that plane to Havana, I can guess that it must have been one of the commercial flights with more spies on board ever LOL
Russia says that he is still in the transit zone of Moskow airport and that they are not helping him and hope that he leaves the airport asap, but I'm sure that they are giving him a helping hand. Moskow airport must be funny right now, spies from everywhere all over the place, American, Chinese, Russian... The Assange & Co guys must be clever to fool all that intelligence. I can imagine that his escape (I hope he will succeed) is going to be worthy of the best spies movies! 


Glad to see Snowden supporters here!

I'm hoping some European countries will be start to feel humbled and convicted by the Latin American countries who've offered asylum, and will step forward too. Once one country was brave enought to do it, 2 more quickly followed. Come on, European countries, do the right thing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jude111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2013 at 21:00
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

This isn't a spy movie. They're not going to kill him.


Just like they didn't kill Michael Hastings, that reporter in Los Angeles whose car curiously exploded after hitting a tree. And what a coincidence, he was friends with Greenwald and his last story filed was about Snowden's NSA leaks.

I've seen many car accidents. I've never seen this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LSY3wVuASg

Let's consider this: If Wikileaks procures a private airplane for Snowden to fly from Moscow to South America, do you think the airplane is going to fly unimpeded? Or would the US force it down or even shoot it down?


Edited by jude111 - July 06 2013 at 21:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jude111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2013 at 21:20

By the way, Glenn Greenwald's newest article is out now: "The NSA's mass and indiscriminate spying on Brazilians":

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/07/nsa-brazilians-globo-spying

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2013 at 01:03
Originally posted by jude111 jude111 wrote:

 
I'm hoping some European countries will be start to feel humbled and convicted by the Latin American countries who've offered asylum, and will step forward too. Once one country was brave enought to do it, 2 more quickly followed. Come on, European countries, do the right thing!
Don't think so, Europeans are too submissive and prefer to avoid conflict. Only 2 European countries could take the step, Germany as the most powerful or Spain as the closest to Latin American countries, and honestly I don't see any of both daring to take the step.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2013 at 01:07
Does libertarianism approve bribing? I mean, it's not killing, not stealing, not directly harming anybody, just using your 'deservedly earned money' for your personal benefit. On paper it seems that it should be fine from a Libertarian perspective?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dtguitarfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2013 at 15:04
For your consideration: Why Government is Virtuous.  FTA:
"We Americans have a distinct suspicion of the relationship between government and personal virtue. Anything that stems from that huge, amorphous and ominous thing in D.C. isn't just a bad idea but likely to stain your character. Libertarians and social conservatives are convinced that they are more than fighting big government, they are promoting virtue. Though happy to invoke a gauzy vision of something just beyond (behind?) the horizon, what is stunning is that both strains of the conservative camp flies in the face of not just modern social science but against thousands of years of our thinking about the relationship between virtue and government."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thellama73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2013 at 15:36
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Does libertarianism approve bribing? I mean, it's not killing, not stealing, not directly harming anybody, just using your 'deservedly earned money' for your personal benefit. On paper it seems that it should be fine from a Libertarian perspective?


Bribing of whom? We don't like bribing of government officials, since the corruption of government and the way they use their monopoly on force to benefit some at the expense of others is part of our complaint.

Bribing of private companies to get you an advantage over other customers? I don't think we would have a moral objection to it, since no one's rights are being violated, but it would be a foolish company that would accept such bribes, for if it got out, they would lose a lot of customers who felt they were being treated unfairly.

There's also an element of price discrimination in the question, where different people are charged according to what they are willing to pay, which libertarians, and economists in general, don't object to, although consumers often do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dtguitarfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2013 at 17:52
This is an excellent video:
http://video.pbs.org/video/2296684923/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2013 at 08:26
Originally posted by jude111 jude111 wrote:

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

This isn't a spy movie. They're not going to kill him.


Just like they didn't kill Michael Hastings, that reporter in Los Angeles whose car curiously exploded after hitting a tree. And what a coincidence, he was friends with Greenwald and his last story filed was about Snowden's NSA leaks.

I've seen many car accidents. I've never seen this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LSY3wVuASg

Let's consider this: If Wikileaks procures a private airplane for Snowden to fly from Moscow to South America, do you think the airplane is going to fly unimpeded? Or would the US force it down or even shoot it down?


I said they won't kill him. Not they haven't killed anybody ever.

You think they would just shoot down a commercial plane in international air space? That's not how IR works.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2013 at 08:27
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Does libertarianism approve bribing? I mean, it's not killing, not stealing, not directly harming anybody, just using your 'deservedly earned money' for your personal benefit. On paper it seems that it should be fine from a Libertarian perspective?


It doesn't have a stance. It's a political/economic philosphy. Bribing is a moral question. They're disjoint.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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