"Freedom" thread or something

Hey, so...why isn't anyone answering rogerthat?  

Gerinski wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: Because as I've been trying to say, despite the original intentions (though I would argue even then that they weren't so libertarian) the US has not progressed in a Libertarian fashion and clearly throughout the years it has shifted to a country with an entirely different type of government as its goal which has nothing to do with the initial state of the system so to speak.  Well, that's precisely what I meant, that you may start Libertarian but eventually you will shift because Libertarian is not a natural and balanced state of being, there's no Libertarian Equilibrium.

The fact that the US has moved away from it's more libertarian beginnings does not prove that libertarianism is not sustainable.  It wasn't because of libertarianism itself that the US has become less libertarian, but because of the greedy power grabs of politicians and the lack of watchfulness on the part of the American people. 

dtguitarfan wrote: Hey, so...why isn't anyone answering rogerthat?

Because most of us aren't in a discussion with him so we are not reading his quote battle?

Equality 7-2521 wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: Hey, so...why isn't anyone answering rogerthat?   Because most of us aren't in a discussion with him so we are not reading his quote battle?

Translation: because you can't deal with what he's saying....

dtguitarfan wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: Hey, so...why isn't anyone answering rogerthat?   Because most of us aren't in a discussion with him so we are not reading his quote battle? Translation: because you can't deal with what he's saying....

If he wants to direct something at me, he can. Otherwise, I'm not going to bother read a back and forth by him and Ambient Hurricanes for two pages.

Coming from someone who ignores points made in direct conversation, glass houses and all that you know?

rogerthat wrote: I would rather you do not include me in saying that non libertarians consider libertarians crazy.  I think the system had its advantages with respect to America as it was.  I am not sure how it would work out today with several giant-sized business houses with lots of lobbying power.   But again I cannot judge that first hand.  I find some aspects of libertarianism extremely disagreeable but that's because it's an ideology (and I am not a believer in any kind of ideology) and it is no more flawed in that sense than Marxism or any other such social or economic ideology.  Maintaining an ideological position necessarily involves rigidity.  And my view is rigidity is generally bad in the 21st century world, where flexibility is required to deal with rapid and drastic changes.

Wow 206 new posts

Im actually glad someone brought up libertarians wanting to believe in Utopia and how things will perfectly...because the irony is (while obviously any person(s) can fall to that) I've generally heard libertarians say markets are better or preferred, but not utopia. In fact they often have zero problem admitting their beliefs are not utopia (probably because we are not perfect)
It's big government folk who try their damdest to keep the "good times" rolling. THEY say we can eliminate recessions, we can smoothen the economic cycle, back in the 20s we had a "permanent new plateau" in the 90s it was the new boom economy, in the 2000s the housing bubble will never end! We can fix every ill, we can fix society, we can fix the natural flaws in humanity. Well, it can get quite grandiose but yeah...

Point is I've noticed libertarians tend to be "gloomy" but realistic. To sum it up real short: The good times CANT roll on forever, not everyone can "win" (however you define it) and no system where people are involved will be utopia.
I admit, many libertarians do say this or come across that way, but well, no one is perfect Many seem realistic about us not getting a utopia.

Big Government tries to remedy these things...and often leave econ and try to fix our social/moral/personal ills.
It may not be said but isn't the point? That we CAN achieve utopia? Fascism was after all opposed to markets as well as communism. Fascism was scientific, it would end all that nasty class warfare, end the wild madness of markets, end inefficiency as we know it.
Communism was utopia, was it not? Sure we never had true communism but perhaps there are reasons for this?

Nothing will be utopia, and regardless of belief, I respect those who say that. It's people, regardless of belief, that claim the plan to make utopia that worry me!




Edited by JJLehto - July 17 2013 at 16:53

"All fixed set patterns are incapable of adaptability or pliability. The truth is outside of all fixed patterns."
- Bruce Lee

[QUOTE=dtguitarfan]"All fixed set patterns are incapable of adaptability or pliability. The truth is outside of all fixed patterns."
- Bruce Lee [/QUOT

Equality 7-2521 wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: "All fixed set patterns are incapable of adaptability or pliability. The truth is outside of all fixed patterns."- Bruce Lee Deep. Nothing like a meaningless quote from a famous person.

It's probably true in martial arts