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Libertarian Thread # 3: Liberty will never die

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JJLehto View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Libertarian Thread # 3: Liberty will never die
    Posted: September 11 2013 at 08:06
Yeah it's such a personal relationship based thing, after all education is ultimately between the educator and the student, I really dont see much that can be "done" about education.
Im sure improvements can be made but IDK how, if it all, it can be done through laws and etc
 
Of course gov can always mess it up more, like No Child Left Behind which was awful, but I dont see going to private schools as bettering quality, how would it?
Anyway, unless you have an inherent disapproval of anything public, I'd say education is a legitimate role of state and not something that should be based on profit and etc I do think it's a bit too difficult to remove teachers, as in when one is poor or worse damaging to a child...its damn tough to get them out, hell oftne you cant even get the kid moved to another class, forcing them to endure what is basically a bully. Yes, I have first hand experience to base this off of (not me personally) and there's tons of stories similar. That should be cracked down on but I see no issue with public schools itself.
 
Flip it, my mother went to both public and private schools, saw no difference in terms of student/teacher quality but in the privates it was covered up betterLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Quote manofmystery Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2013 at 08:36
Originally posted by The T

Come one MoM, as Slart used to be with cartoons, you are becoming the youtube-video-only participant of this thread


Haven't had much time or desire recently
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Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2013 at 09:04
Originally posted by Dean

^ Ranking is a meaningless statistic anyway. The goal of education is not to triumph over other nations.
 
By the same logic, the goal should not be to triumph over other states, cities, districts, schools, classes or students either. The goal of education should be to educate, surely.


Yeah. Ranking's merely a rhetorical device to channel nationalistic, xenophobic, localistic, blah blah demographic groups into action.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2013 at 09:07
Originally posted by JJLehto

Yeah it's such a personal relationship based thing, after all education is ultimately between the educator and the student, I really dont see much that can be "done" about education.
Im sure improvements can be made but IDK how, if it all, it can be done through laws and etc
 
Of course gov can always mess it up more, like No Child Left Behind which was awful, but I dont see going to private schools as bettering quality, how would it?
Anyway, unless you have an inherent disapproval of anything public, I'd say education is a legitimate role of state and not something that should be based on profit and etc I do think it's a bit too difficult to remove teachers, as in when one is poor or worse damaging to a child...its damn tough to get them out, hell oftne you cant even get the kid moved to another class, forcing them to endure what is basically a bully. Yes, I have first hand experience to base this off of (not me personally) and there's tons of stories similar. That should be cracked down on but I see no issue with public schools itself.
 
Flip it, my mother went to both public and private schools, saw no difference in terms of student/teacher quality but in the privates it was covered up betterLOL


It's a cultural issue. Though I do feel that our laws affect the culture and contribute to the problem.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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JJLehto View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2013 at 11:35
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521

Originally posted by JJLehto

Yeah it's such a personal relationship based thing, after all education is ultimately between the educator and the student, I really dont see much that can be "done" about education.
Im sure improvements can be made but IDK how, if it all, it can be done through laws and etc
 
Of course gov can always mess it up more, like No Child Left Behind which was awful, but I dont see going to private schools as bettering quality, how would it?
Anyway, unless you have an inherent disapproval of anything public, I'd say education is a legitimate role of state and not something that should be based on profit and etc I do think it's a bit too difficult to remove teachers, as in when one is poor or worse damaging to a child...its damn tough to get them out, hell oftne you cant even get the kid moved to another class, forcing them to endure what is basically a bully. Yes, I have first hand experience to base this off of (not me personally) and there's tons of stories similar. That should be cracked down on but I see no issue with public schools itself.
 
Flip it, my mother went to both public and private schools, saw no difference in terms of student/teacher quality but in the privates it was covered up betterLOL


It's a cultural issue. Though I do feel that our laws affect the culture and contribute to the problem.
 
That seems right to me, doesn't everything boil down to culture in the end? But especially an issue like education.
No doubt laws can interfere, usually in negative ways.
 
Just from my experience, the issue I think is the focus on well rankingsLOL class rank, GPA, grades etc no one cared about learning, and the focus on "teaching to tests" worsened it. My fav teacher in HS was generally disliked because he actually taught us stuff and would put off tests/make us wait to see results....that evil b*****d!
As ya said, that's a cultural thing and seems laws indeed make it worse by incentivizing such behavior.


Edited by JJLehto - September 11 2013 at 11:35
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Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2013 at 13:21
Culturally: educated = accredited, education is something you purchase, educated is a final state, educate is something that others do to you, education is something that will be given to you. 
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Post Options Post Options   Quote horsewithteeth11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2013 at 16:03
Do any of you actually think this means anything, or is there not really anything to get worked up over? I'm so skeptical at this point that I don't know if this will make a significant difference in the long-term. Especially given there's still another case going on involving the ACLU.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2013 at 16:11
There's no way to really tell. I would think that any change it brings would be minor. I have little faith in legal channels bringing about the transparency needed in the country. Leaks/cyberattacks will be the most effective. Hopefully, people with the means to do so will be encouraged by Snowden to do so.

Edited by Equality 7-2521 - September 14 2013 at 18:33
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Earendil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2013 at 17:51
Every line in this is genius:


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Post Options Post Options   Quote manofmystery Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2013 at 22:15
Yep, that's why I posted it on the last page
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Earendil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2013 at 08:41
LOL  awesome 

/contribution

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2013 at 07:40
Pat is right about that, while it's always an uphill battle I've pretty much lost all faith in changes from within.
The $/lobbying in Congress seems to be at suffocating levels, any possible change done is just slowly killed by all sorts of outside influence and lawyering. The legal system seems to be turning into madness, and we're too beaten down to care. Mass movements can still get stuff done but the US is to "stable" aka we never really get together to do such things.
 
And we view protests as bad things now a days, instead of good things as it should be.
Kind of sad that often, Im sure not always, arrogant, self righteous "hacktivists" and leaks may have to prompt change.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote King of Loss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2013 at 00:36
Originally posted by Earendil

Every line in this is genius:



It's great that at these troubling times, we humans still exhibit great humor!Tongue


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2013 at 10:51
I have to say I'm mildly impressed with Obama at the moment. The peaceful Syria solution (though of course he did propose violent action to begin with so I temper it a bit) and the news that he plans on talking diplomatically with Iran are pretty great and essentially buck a 5 decade trend in both areas.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2013 at 07:31
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521

I have to say I'm mildly impressed with Obama at the moment. The peaceful Syria solution (though of course he did propose violent action to begin with so I temper it a bit) and the news that he plans on talking diplomatically with Iran are pretty great and essentially buck a 5 decade trend in both areas.
 
Kudos for the statement Pat, and fair points.
 
It is a small step up from Wubya, who hell or high water was not being deterred ever.
Obama and co were pedal to the metal for war but they caved to the backlash.
 
What's nutty is that is how it's supposed to be! With enough fuss any politician can be held in check. We've gotten used to Wubya who and co who blatantly didn't give a sh*t and no matter how unpopular they were, (Bama has been spared by the media/public opinion).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote stonebeard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2013 at 12:10
Obama has no "War Capital" left. At all. And it's pretty obvious. Bush had a ton of it, especially riding 9/11. That doesn't fly these days.

Edited by stonebeard - September 24 2013 at 12:10
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Post Options Post Options   Quote King of Loss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2013 at 12:14
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521

I have to say I'm mildly impressed with Obama at the moment. The peaceful Syria solution (though of course he did propose violent action to begin with so I temper it a bit) and the news that he plans on talking diplomatically with Iran are pretty great and essentially buck a 5 decade trend in both areas.

Well.... They might just be buying their time.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2013 at 12:24
Originally posted by stonebeard

Obama has no "War Capital" left. At all. And it's pretty obvious. Bush had a ton of it, especially riding 9/11. That doesn't fly these days.


It's more the US's relative weakness compared to a decade ago and the opposition of the international community.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2013 at 07:30
I was gunna say, that's a pretty good point Stoney but IDK...the Prez can always pull out some war capital. OR he could say f**k it and just do it, but thankfully Obama seems to be a normal politician and care, at least a bit, what we think of himLOL Good ol wubya, not even his advisors/cabinet members could sway that man...
 
 It is true though, 9/11 has become distant enough, hopefully the world, (and the US) is starting to say OK POTUS knock it off now.
 
 
 


Edited by JJLehto - September 26 2013 at 07:31
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2013 at 09:22
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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