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Libertarian Thread # 3: Liberty will never die

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The T View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Libertarian Thread # 3: Liberty will never die
    Posted: October 06 2013 at 12:42
The libertarian solution of eliminating government off health care altogether and totally freeing the market is one that i think could yield great results but I can't see it not causing absolute disaster first in a economy so full of poor people. To "activate" such system to say it one way would mean eliminating what help low income families have right now. It would probably in the long run lead to lower prices and more options but after a period of shock and calamity that the current poor (poverty is not a static characteristic) probably wouldn't be able to sustain. That's just my view, with no data to back it up and purely hypothetical. I would prefer to bring about what can work here and now and make efficiency and cost adjustments as it goes. A single payer system.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote stonebeard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2013 at 12:52
Originally posted by The T

That's just my view, with no data to back it up and purely hypothetical.


And that is libertarianism in a nutshell.

(Joking but also serious).
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The T View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2013 at 13:27
True that.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2013 at 07:41
Ha from socialistic to hardcore, near anarchist, libertarian and now backing away.
Some crazy roller coaster Teo!
 
Nah, I took a similar albeit less extreme ride. What you said above is actually one of the "real life" issues I have with the total free market approach. Not an issue with the theory per se, but if we were to go to the ideal for them, I can't see how there wouldn't be major social and economic issues. You mentioned healthcare, and of course ideas like removing the Fed, going on a gold standard are the backbone of US libertarianism. Unless there is some way to "phase em in" (if even possible) going to this world would cause quite a mess, to put it mildly.
 
Even the process of going to such a limited gov would be a very painful transition. Sorry, but unless I can be convinced otherwise, seems obvious that forcing "responsible" government during down times is disasterous. Even if it was done during a "boom" it would hurt growth and IMO make the next recession worse. Been reading interesting articles about gov deficits and corp profits, esp during a down period (basically it helps maintain corp profits until the private sector can bounce back). Um, yeah...so even IF the Ron Paul world is correct, do the ends justify the means?  
Those who want anarcho capitalism, I dont even know.
 
 
...btw hope Geoff sees thisLOL I always meant what I said, just I hated being told (more like demanded) to do it by someone with a clear agenda of bashing GOP, who we all hate anywaySmile
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2013 at 08:04

That said, I still would love to see the Fed limited in its role.

From the progressive, gov deficits are good, bloggers:
We need a boring Fed chair!
"We need to end the barmy “maestro” system that has transformed Fed Chairs into rock stars, and turned every inadvertent nose-scratching by the Fed chief into a Page One story feeding hyper-reflexive and erratic market responses to real or imagined Fed signals. The maestro system, with its cult of superstitious fawning and slack-jawed wonderment at the Banker-In-Chief, has veered into extreme depths of perversity lately, as too-clever-by-half market practitioners attempt to outthink themselves at every turn, neglecting fundamentals and clinging to dotty theories about quantitative easing that turn good news into bad news and bad news into good news. The markets sometimes seem to have become nothing but free-floating postmodern casinos driven by arbitrary assignments of importance to Fed policy statements – and that’s a very dangerous thing for our economy."
 
"Both in the United States and Europe, do-nothing legislatures and benighted or corrupt policy-makers have laid waste to a generation of unemployed and increasingly hopeless young people while the policy-makers sit back and pray for central bank rain dances and other snake oil cures to be effected by mere interest rate jiggering and asset shuffling."
 
 
Daaamn


Edited by JJLehto - October 09 2013 at 08:07
"It's fine, luckily we're all English so no one will ask any questions. Thank you centuries of emotional repression."
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Padraic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Padraic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2013 at 09:31
Picture Yellen dressed like a member of Kiss.  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2013 at 10:17
Ha! If I wasn't at work I'd whip that up, a few might find the sight odd though
"It's fine, luckily we're all English so no one will ask any questions. Thank you centuries of emotional repression."
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2013 at 10:21
Originally posted by JJLehto

Ha from socialistic to hardcore, near anarchist, libertarian and now backing away. Some crazy roller coaster Teo]
I agree with most of libertarianism and still consider myself close to the idea, but the realities of health care in the United States stop me from supporting a full elimination of government and a full opening to a 100% free market, as I said, probably the best idea but one that would cause shock and misery if suddenly applied to health care.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2013 at 12:33
Originally posted by The T

The libertarian solution of eliminating government off health care altogether and totally freeing the market is one that i think could yield great results but I can't see it not causing absolute disaster first in a economy so full of poor people. To "activate" such system to say it one way would mean eliminating what help low income families have right now. It would probably in the long run lead to lower prices and more options but after a period of shock and calamity that the current poor (poverty is not a static characteristic) probably wouldn't be able to sustain. That's just my view, with no data to back it up and purely hypothetical. I would prefer to bring about what can work here and now and make efficiency and cost adjustments as it goes. A single payer system.


The issue with this is that in this circumstance you need a libertarian culture before you have the libertarian government. In an age where we use government policy to force cultural change, this seems unlikely.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Post Options Post Options   Quote manofmystery Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2013 at 18:32
What a hilarious joke, you completely inhuman monster of a sociopath of an absolute b*****d:


ps: sorry for the hit and run post
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2013 at 18:42
Winner of the Nobel Peace Prize folks.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote manofmystery Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2013 at 19:36
Sadly, that still makes just as much sense as some of the ones that have been awarded for economics
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Post Options Post Options   Quote manofmystery Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2013 at 19:42
By the way, it might be time for me to update my signature. Carly Foulkes, while still hot, should be replaced. Possible candidates including Wipeout's Jill Wagner, Kat Dennings, and the chick from the Nationwide Insurance commercial... among others.
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Padraic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Padraic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2013 at 20:05
My kids absolutely love Wipeout, so I vote for Jill.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote manofmystery Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2013 at 20:15
Actually, I forgot Amber Heard! Smoking hot and the closest thing we'll ever see to a libertarian Hollywood actress.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Padraic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2013 at 20:19
Plays for the other team, for what it's worth
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Post Options Post Options   Quote manofmystery Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2013 at 20:23
No no, my friend, she's a bisexual
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2013 at 20:28
Amber Heard's the easy choice there.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Post Options Post Options   Quote manofmystery Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2013 at 20:45
Yep
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2013 at 10:34
Originally posted by Epignosis

Winner of the Nobel Peace Prize folks.
 
Yes ..you're right, they should have given it to Dubya.
 
Wink
 
 
Et In Arcadia Ego
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