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"Freedom" thread or something

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JJLehto View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2012 at 18:35
I know you've made the point wealthy are important to society...which it started as such...
but then it got into all this other stuff. He sounds like the typical fat cat who wants us to keep bailing them out.
Sure...their money makes us money, but they wanna be irresponsible dicks and not pay for it?

Besides I'm no expert but that whole 2000's bubble that was so great didn't really seem to affect every day American much, we all seemed to struggle more as the decade went on.
I kind of think this guy is full of sh*tLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2012 at 18:54
I do seriously wish people would think about/look into what they consider wealthy.

It's almost always the multi millionaires. The CEOs and bankers. That is like the root of all evil for the left..but that article did make a good point. That's like the .1%
I see the $500,000 mark as making the top 1% ... there is a good chance a good number of those people earned that wealth. When I was at Aflac briefly some of the big wigs (the state managers) made that type of money, and let me tell you... I couln't hack it at the bottom! 

In order to get to their level requires a f**king sh*t ton of life consuming work. I'd hate to punish those people.

In fact they had different sales plans you could follow, depending on what level of income you'd like to hit. The "best" path got you to $250,000 (the Obama mark of wealthy) and very few were that good...the left needs to take a serious look at who are these wealthy and not the number.





Edited by JJLehto - May 04 2012 at 18:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2012 at 13:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsewithteeth11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2012 at 17:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2012 at 19:57
Originally posted by horsewithteeth11 horsewithteeth11 wrote:

"Liking" something on Facebook not protected by First Amendment.


Plenty of people don't know what speech the first amendment protects though- it isn't "Hey, you can say whatever you want."  Now, whether these people have a case or not is likely up to the local government, not the Constitution of the US.

That said, the Sheriff should wonder why six of his folks "like" the other guy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manofmystery Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2012 at 13:51

Hey, what ever happened to this thread being all about Sweden?



Time always wins.
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Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2012 at 14:55
Not a fan of the hall of champions on that site. 
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manofmystery Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2012 at 08:00

Haven't checked out the rest of the site.  Suppose I should have posted the original source of the article.



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Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2012 at 09:18
I probably should have read the article too.

I found it enjoyable. I always take these things with a grain of salt though. Cutting taxes and cutting welfare and lowering unemployment and fostering growth can mean a lot of things when put forth by generalities.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2012 at 12:41
I still do love Sweden.
In fact it was Sweden that changed my views from full out socialist to not...when I found out about how free their markets are, and things like lack of a minimum wage and etc
I just no longer see it as an appropriate, or realistic, solution to the US.

Or anywhere really...that region of the world must drink from magic spring water, they somehow have made the system work for 60 years. Also helped that they were in a unique situation entering the "industrialized" world.
Though there are challenges it faces, and I believe it's welfare state is getting difficult to maintain.

Maybe proof that even in the very best of worlds, eventually it's bound to become unsustainable?



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Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2012 at 12:51
I think cultural differences have can an enormous impact on the economic landscape.

I don't want to be slarti, but I got a good laugh from this today.




Edited by Equality 7-2521 - May 08 2012 at 12:51
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2012 at 14:23
. And truer than Slarti's...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2012 at 16:20
Honestly, it's not so much the people that amaze me in the Nordic Model...it's the government.
The fact that there are large welfare states which, for decades now, have just done their job, and been corruption free.
It defies all logic.


Aw cmon political cartoons are fine, they're great to sum up issues into 4 or 5 pictures. Thing is, like most else, they are just a vehicle to convey your views. I like that one Pat but it's no better than Slart's...just more relevant to youLOL

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Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2012 at 20:28
^ The government would be comprised  of people who would be shaped in their actions by the culture no?
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2012 at 06:11
Yeah it all goes hand in hand.
I guess it doesn't defy logicLOL I sometimes forget "government" isn't some living entity, it's just people.

This is why it could never work here barring some truly radical change, our culture is just too different, especially for those in power. I also don't think the US people would want it (nor do I anymore).
I used to think it could slowly happen, which is what I was hoping for with Obama and the Dems in power, but I quickly saw how incompatible our culture/system is with it.

Whatever, not every country should adopt the same policy (another lesson I learned). I admire Sweden, but it's just not right for us. That's fine.


Edited by JJLehto - May 09 2012 at 06:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2012 at 10:41
I think it will fall apart in Sweeden too eventually. 
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2012 at 11:53
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

I think it will fall apart in Sweeden too eventually. 


Yes, there are challenges the countries are facing in maintaining their systems.
I think I said this somewhere...it should be proof that the large welfare state/big government is ultimately destined to fail. Even in the best world possible, eventually it's just going to become unsustainable.

Edit: Besides I read a pretty good article from Cato about privatizing SS and how it would almost certainly yield higher rates of return that what we have now. If so, and since you could pass it on to your children, it could help alleviate poverty and IMO probably more effectively than the trillion dollars spent now.




Edited by JJLehto - May 09 2012 at 11:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2012 at 19:55
I don't really support privatizing SS. I see the arguments about having some choice, having the money actually be invested, having the system be sustainable, etc. However, it just seems like it'll become a handout to financial institutions which will control wealth being forcibly taken from people to be put to their own abuses which will ultimately lead to the money being squandered and these institutions being protected for ineptitude with the money.

Just eliminate any withholding system. If I want to invest my money let me invest it. If I want to spend my money, let me spend it.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2012 at 06:28
No I totally agree. Seems a little silly to have allow private retirement investment, but force people into it.
Especially at the 10% minimum Chile has. I believe that's more than we pay into SS currently.

There should be no payroll tax and you can spend/invest as much as you want.

Was just saying that private investments could yield more money than SS so it's actually better than any welfare program we have.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2012 at 07:49
I guess what I'm trying to say is that unforeseen consequences could make a private social security scheme worse than the purely governmental one despite the higher ROI expected. It's a common problem which occurs when we privatize something. You essentially replace one evil with two evils working together. Government run institutions get replaced by a symbiotic rule of government and business who in turn enrich each other through you. We can see this with private prison systems.

For this reason, I tend to only support privatization when it means true privatization - completely eliminating government control from that sphere. When you leave government force involved and invite in private businesses to run the show, you haven't freed the market, you've just let some huge corporation in on the fun of looting you.

(Don't freak out on me. I know this isn't different than what you're saying; I just feel the need to elaborate on my part. )


"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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