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Prog Definition

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dtguitarfan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dtguitarfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Prog Definition
    Posted: March 10 2012 at 09:36
Originally posted by Vibrationbaby

Well most of us are musically illiterate. So are many of the musicians who come up with all this sh*t. So who cares really.Simon Firth who was one of the best rock cooentators lacked formal musical training and admitted to not even knowing exactly what harmony, beat, riff  or melody exactly are and used the terms loosley in his work.


But that's just the thing - I think Progressive Rock is a genre where people who actually knew about music theory are rebelling against the popular attitude that it doesn't matter: the attitude that it isn't about music but about pretty people dancing around on stage to repetitive beats.  Which is why in THIS genre, it IS important to know the difference between crap and good music.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 11:15
Originally posted by dtguitarfan

.....in THIS genre, it IS important to know the difference between crap and good music.

Really? What is crap music? What is good?
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 11:35
Personally, I find it interesting to understand WHY and HOW music works, and music theory makes it clearer to me. There is some method to it besides it just "sounding good". My appreciation comes from a balance of techncal knowledge and subjective "feel".
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dtguitarfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 11:37
Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by dtguitarfan

.....in THIS genre, it IS important to know the difference between crap and good music.

Really? What is crap music? What is good?


Pretty much every artist that won a Grammy this year (that was televised) is crap music.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Bearded Bard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 11:39
Originally posted by CPicard

Oh, I don't complain, I'm just an observer.
Oh, OK, then I'm NOT sorryWink
 
Originally posted by CPicard

I only hope we could go further and discuss quarter tones in classical Northern Indian music or the various modes in improvised Arabian music (I tried to read a book on this last subject and went lost after 40 pages on a total of 300 pages).
I don't know much about that either, but I'm gameBig smile
 


Edited by The Bearded Bard - March 10 2012 at 12:45
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Bearded Bard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 11:43
Originally posted by HolyMoly

Personally, I find it interesting to understand WHY and HOW music works, and music theory makes it clearer to me. There is some method to it besides it just "sounding good". My appreciation comes from a balance of techncal knowledge and subjective "feel".
I really would like to know more about the WHYs and HOWs of music. Perhaps a book like 'Music Theory for Dummies' is just the thing for me?Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Horizons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 12:13
Originally posted by dtguitarfan

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by dtguitarfan

.....in THIS genre, it IS important to know the difference between crap and good music.

Really? What is crap music? What is good?


Pretty much every artist that won a Grammy this year (that was televised) is crap music.

I quite enjoy Bon Iver. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dtguitarfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 12:26
Originally posted by Horizons


Originally posted by dtguitarfan


Originally posted by Snow Dog


Originally posted by dtguitarfan

.....in THIS genre, it IS important to know the difference between crap and good music.

Really? What is crap music? What is good?
Pretty much every artist that won a Grammy this year (that was televised) is crap music.

I quite enjoy Bon Iver. 


I did say "pretty much" - here, THIS is crap music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llKlUBkEQAE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 12:41
Originally posted by dtguitarfan

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by dtguitarfan

.....in THIS genre, it IS important to know the difference between crap and good music.

Really? What is crap music? What is good?


Pretty much every artist that won a Grammy this year (that was televised) is crap music.

Aah! Then I disagree. 
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 12:48
Originally posted by The Bearded Bard

Originally posted by HolyMoly

Personally, I find it interesting to understand WHY and HOW music works, and music theory makes it clearer to me. There is some method to it besides it just "sounding good". My appreciation comes from a balance of techncal knowledge and subjective "feel".
I really would like to know more about the WHYs and HOWs of music. Perhaps a book like 'Music Theory for Dummies' is just the thing for me?Wink

Give a look to this...few theory for beginners and a lot of interesting stuff.

Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote progprogprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 12:50
Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by dtguitarfan

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by dtguitarfan

.....in THIS genre, it IS important to know the difference between crap and good music.

Really? What is crap music? What is good?


Pretty much every artist that won a Grammy this year (that was televised) is crap music.

Aah! Then I disagree. 
Sorry to interrupt you, but I would love to have some examples here for your  disagreement.
Always thinking in extremes.That's my way to beat boredom.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote progprogprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 12:52
Sounds like an interesting book Luca, I will check that out.Thumbs Up
Always thinking in extremes.That's my way to beat boredom.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Bearded Bard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 13:07
Originally posted by progprogprog

Sounds like an interesting book Luca, I will check that out.Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 13:08
Originally posted by The Bearded Bard

Thanks for explaining, Dean.
 
 
I'm not sure I completely understand it, then again, I'm not a musician and I've got VERY little music theory, so that might be the reason I don't, but I'm definetely wiser after reading your explanation then I was before.
It was my pleasure. Thing to remember is musicians can do it and they're not the sharpest knives in the drawer so even something like 7/4 or 7/8 meter, which we call complex time, is only counting to seven and it's only called complex because 7 doesn't divide by 2 or 3.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 13:10
Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by dtguitarfan

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by dtguitarfan

.....in THIS genre, it IS important to know the difference between crap and good music.

Really? What is crap music? What is good?


Pretty much every artist that won a Grammy this year (that was televised) is crap music.

Aah! Then I disagree. 
I think it's because Dream Theatre were nominated but didn't win Ian. Wink


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 13:31
Originally posted by octopus-4

"Music for nerds" is a good definition for prog. It totally justifies what's happening on this thread.
Smile              Smile     Smile                     Smile                 Smile             Smile        Smile Smile          Smile                  Smile    Smile  

... and it totally explains why chicks don't dig it Big smile . I wouldn't really consider prog "greats" illiterate ... sorry for bugging you with the intro to Firth of Fifth again, but you have to acknowledge Banks' weird talent. Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dtguitarfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 13:35
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by dtguitarfan

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by dtguitarfan

.....in THIS genre, it IS important to know the difference between crap and good music.

Really? What is crap music? What is good?


Pretty much every artist that won a Grammy this year (that was televised) is crap music.

Aah! Then I disagree. 
I think it's because Dream Theatre were nominated but didn't win Ian. Wink

I never expected them to - I know the Grammy's are a big popularity contest that has nothing to do with musical value.  But that doesn't change the fact that the Foo Fighters suck.  I mean, they played a song and the only thing their drummer did the whole time was "Dum-Pa-Dum-Pa-Dum-Pa-Dum-Pa-Dum-Pa-Dum-Pa..."

Edited by dtguitarfan - March 10 2012 at 13:59
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 13:41
Originally posted by dtguitarfan

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

Originally posted by octopus-4

"Music for nerds" is a good definition for prog. It totally justifies what's happening on this thread.
Smile              Smile     Smile                     Smile                 Smile             Smile        Smile Smile          Smile                  Smile    Smile  

... and it totally explains why chicks don't dig it Big smile . I wouldn't really consider prog "greats" illiterate ... sorry for bugging you with the intro to Firth of Fifth again, but you have to acknowledge Banks' weird talent. Big smile

I never expected them to - I know the Grammy's are a big popularity contest that has nothing to do with musical value.  But that doesn't change the fact that the Foo Fighters suck.  I mean, they played a song and the only thing their drummer did the whole time was "Dum-Pa-Dum-Pa-Dum-Pa-Dum-Pa-Dum-Pa-Dum-Pa..."

Yeah, I think I know that beat; it's something Simon King pulled off on the opener of "Here Come the Warm Jets", right? Sorry for deviating from the topic of the thread. You know what? Instead of apologizing, let's just stick with the topic LOLBig smile .


Edited by Dayvenkirq - March 10 2012 at 13:42
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Bearded Bard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 13:42
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by The Bearded Bard

Thanks for explaining, Dean.
 
 
I'm not sure I completely understand it, then again, I'm not a musician and I've got VERY little music theory, so that might be the reason I don't, but I'm definetely wiser after reading your explanation then I was before.
It was my pleasure. Thing to remember is musicians can do it and they're not the sharpest knives in the drawer so even something like 7/4 or 7/8 meter, which we call complex time, is only counting to seven and it's only called complex because 7 doesn't divide by 2 or 3.
Not the sharpest knives in the drawer, you say?
 
Oh, I see what you mean.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 14:15
Decades ago when I was surrounded by fine musicians , there was a lot of talk about developing a "feel" for a certain style of music. Every musician I traveled with studied with some sort of master. Being great at sight reading, scales, theory yet still asking me if I thought they had the right "feel". It happens when you are young musician with great technique, but haven't reached the level of expressing your own voice. You can be a schooled reader and not know how to express through an instrument ...the true expression of the composition. The composition is complex, but has a lot of feeling. It is not evident to the majority of people in the world. It's America's pathetic reaction to ethnic music. They cringe and let off a nervous stare. They have always been afraid of Arabic music ..which was easier for them to except through a Warner Bros. cartoon or a 3 Stooges episode.

 
Take Gong's "A Sprinkling of Clouds" for an example. The drummer enters in around 4:30. You can count along and tap your foot to 1,2,3,4,5, 1,2,3,4,5, 1,2,3,4,5, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, and repeat. This has a lot of feeling ..as it is like dance with a jazz mentality. Gymnastics in prog are meant to be felt and instead they are summed up to be noodling. What? Musicians work up a huge sweat performing prog and many in the audience are actually discouraged by notes. A common reaction in the U.S. when playing fast note passages at the time was only excepted in Jazz, Country, Bluegrass, Swinging Blues, and Surf music. Prog was such a simple idea when musicians decided to take the influence of Classical, European Folk , American Jazz and work those influences into "Rock music". It's so strange when I talk with musicians on the phone from Europe and they will understand a musical concept as if they sat in the room and wrote it with me. I find it rare meeting someone like that in America. Prog is all about "feel" for the musician , yet sometimes the audience is feeling nothing. Prog is like Gnosis. Gnosis is a feeling one will get and not knowing how to descibe it and feeling shock will run from it or surpress it through logic.    

Edited by TODDLER - March 10 2012 at 14:15
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