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LGBT in Progressive Rock
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Epignosis View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 28 2012 at 20:37
Originally posted by Man Overboard

Originally posted by Epignosis

 
For an analogy, it would be like going to a Neal Morse concert where he preaches an actual sermon instead of playing songs for the whole show.


Having been to a Neal Morse gig, that's not far from what you get. Preaching in the songs, preaching between the songs, and then, some old Spock's numbers changed up just enough to be preachy. In fact, if there were prog artists whose music was LGBT like Neal Morse's is Christian, with that same kind of visibility, we'd likely see this topic play out quite differently.


He played music, didn't he?

Music cannot be "LGBT" just as music cannot be Christian.

You say he changed Spock's Beard songs to "be preachy-" What does that even mean?  How do you preach during a song?  Just because the lyrics of his song were religious does not make his song preachy.
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Posts: 30914 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 20:39
Originally posted by Textbook

Except it would be much less offensive so there'd be less reason to discuss it.


Only a few states permit gay marriage.   Perhaps you definition of "reason" and "discuss" are different from mine.
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Originally posted by Epignosis



You say he changed Spock's Beard songs to "be preachy-" What does that even mean?  How do you preach during a song?  Just because the lyrics of his song were religious does not make his song preachy.

The show I went to was at a small church in Long Island, just Neal and his guitar, and there was quite a bit of between song preaching. On the DVD's I've seen, he usually has the band vamp quietly for a while while he does a little sermon/testimony thing. There's a few of these on "? Live", one where he talks about before he became a Christian and prayed for God to cure his hangover during the "Nick & Neal: Two Separate Gorillas" tour, and another where he prays for Germany to be converted into a Christian nation. The latter was particularly disturbing.

But at the show I went to I was able to get him to sing "Lost Cause" from his (secular) first solo album. It was great hearing him try to dodge some of the dodgier lyrics ("I guess I just don't care about breaking laws". "If you got one pass it over"). And after the song he did a little testimony thing related to that album (about when he told some girl he was "like money in the bank"). It was one of the more memorable shows I've been to.


Edited by Harry Hood - March 28 2012 at 20:56
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Posts: 30914 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 21:00
Originally posted by Harry Hood

Originally posted by Epignosis



You say he changed Spock's Beard songs to "be preachy-" What does that even mean?  How do you preach during a song?  Just because the lyrics of his song were religious does not make his song preachy.

The show I went to was at a small church in Long Island, just Neal and his guitar, and there was quite a bit of between song preaching. On the DVD's I've seen, he usually has the band vamp quietly for a while while he does a little sermon/testimony thing. There's a few of these on "? Live", one where he talks about before he became a Christian and prayed for God to cure his hangover during the "Nick & Neal: Two Separate Gorillas" tour, and another where he prays for Germany to be converted into a Christian nation. The latter was particularly disturbing.

But at the show I went to I was able to get him to sing "Lost Cause" from his (secular) first solo album. It was great hearing him try to dodge some of the dodgier lyrics ("I guess I just don't care about breaking laws". "If you got one pass it over"). And after the song he did a little testimony thing related to that album (about when he told some girl he was "like money in the bank"). It was one of the more memorable shows I've been to.


I only know the Germany reference, and I don't agree that he was praying "for Germany to be converted to a Christian nation."  That's a hyperbole.

In case anyone is keeping points, I'm not defending Neal Morse in this thread.

If he came out as gay, and began preaching about how being gay is amazing, would you be pissed as a paying customer?

nb4 "lol Neal Morse is gay! lol"
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I got there on page 1 dude. And I couldn't give a sh*t how many states permit whatever, I decide what I find objectionable ;)
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Posts: 1306 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Harry Hood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 21:03
Originally posted by Epignosis

.
If he came out as gay, and began preaching about how being gay is amazing, would you be pissed as a paying customer?


I would go to every show. i would follow him like people used to follow the Grateful Dead. I would request Judas Priest and King's X covers.
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Posts: 3749 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Man Overboard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 21:40
Epignosis, your argument seems to be "music can't be about anything, even if its lyrics and tropes are primarily about something, so this discussion is pointless". If this is your argument, know you're picking over semantics and coming dangerously close to being committed to derailing this topic. I know this forum's standards for discourse are fairly low, but can we at least try to discuss the topic at hand? If you've nothing constructive to say re: LGBT issues in prog, perhaps you might find another topic to go muddy up. 
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This may be construed as fighting words, but I think it's quite clear that Epignosis is anti-homosexual causes and is attempting to push that agenda in a very roundabout and nicely worded way so no one does what I'm doing right now and calling him on his little game.
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Posts: 30914 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 21:45
Originally posted by Man Overboard

Epignosis, your argument seems to be "music can't be about anything, even if its lyrics and tropes are primarily about something, so this discussion is pointless". If this is your argument, know you're picking over semantics and coming dangerously close to being committed to derailing this topic. I know this forum's standards for discourse are fairly low, but can we at least try to discuss the topic at hand? If you've nothing constructive to say re: LGBT issues in prog, perhaps you might find another topic to go muddy up. 


You seem to not read well.

I don't mind people singing about being gay.

Music can't be about anything because music consists of notes, not words.  There is not a gay F# note is there?

You are treading dangerously close to "words don't mean anything."

Words have meaning, right?
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Posts: 30914 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 21:46
Originally posted by Textbook

This may be construed as fighting words, but I think it's quite clear that Epignosis is anti-homosexual causes and is attempting to push that agenda in a very roundabout and nicely worded way so no one does what I'm doing right now and calling him on his little game.


And if I am, will you be tolerant of me and my views?  Smile
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Posts: 651 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 40footwolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 21:47
Originally posted by Epignosis

Originally posted by Man Overboard

Epignosis, your argument seems to be "music can't be about anything, even if its lyrics and tropes are primarily about something, so this discussion is pointless". If this is your argument, know you're picking over semantics and coming dangerously close to being committed to derailing this topic. I know this forum's standards for discourse are fairly low, but can we at least try to discuss the topic at hand? If you've nothing constructive to say re: LGBT issues in prog, perhaps you might find another topic to go muddy up. 


You seem to not read well.

I don't mind people singing about being gay.

Music can't be about anything because music consists of notes, not words.  There is not a gay F# note is there?

You are treading dangerously close to "words don't mean anything."

Words have meaning, right?

But you do seem kind of mad about people talking about gay people who sing.
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Posts: 30914 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 21:48
Originally posted by 40footwolf

Originally posted by Epignosis

Originally posted by Man Overboard

Epignosis, your argument seems to be "music can't be about anything, even if its lyrics and tropes are primarily about something, so this discussion is pointless". If this is your argument, know you're picking over semantics and coming dangerously close to being committed to derailing this topic. I know this forum's standards for discourse are fairly low, but can we at least try to discuss the topic at hand? If you've nothing constructive to say re: LGBT issues in prog, perhaps you might find another topic to go muddy up. 


You seem to not read well.

I don't mind people singing about being gay.

Music can't be about anything because music consists of notes, not words.  There is not a gay F# note is there?

You are treading dangerously close to "words don't mean anything."

Words have meaning, right?

But you do seem kind of mad about people talking about gay people who sing.


Can you show me where?
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Posts: 651 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 40footwolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 21:50
Originally posted by Epignosis

Originally posted by 40footwolf

Originally posted by Epignosis

Originally posted by Man Overboard

Epignosis, your argument seems to be "music can't be about anything, even if its lyrics and tropes are primarily about something, so this discussion is pointless". If this is your argument, know you're picking over semantics and coming dangerously close to being committed to derailing this topic. I know this forum's standards for discourse are fairly low, but can we at least try to discuss the topic at hand? If you've nothing constructive to say re: LGBT issues in prog, perhaps you might find another topic to go muddy up. 


You seem to not read well.

I don't mind people singing about being gay.

Music can't be about anything because music consists of notes, not words.  There is not a gay F# note is there?

You are treading dangerously close to "words don't mean anything."

Words have meaning, right?

But you do seem kind of mad about people talking about gay people who sing.


Can you show me where?

You edited your first post in the topic but it was originally pretty hostile and dismissive towards the entire idea of the thread.
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Posts: 1306 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Harry Hood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 21:50
Originally posted by Epignosis


I don't mind people singing about being gay.

Music can't be about anything because music consists of notes, not words.  There is not a gay F# note is there?


Clearly you haven't listened to Doug Pinnick's bass playing.
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Posts: 30914 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 21:56
Originally posted by 40footwolf

Originally posted by Epignosis

Originally posted by 40footwolf

Originally posted by Epignosis

Originally posted by Man Overboard

Epignosis, your argument seems to be "music can't be about anything, even if its lyrics and tropes are primarily about something, so this discussion is pointless". If this is your argument, know you're picking over semantics and coming dangerously close to being committed to derailing this topic. I know this forum's standards for discourse are fairly low, but can we at least try to discuss the topic at hand? If you've nothing constructive to say re: LGBT issues in prog, perhaps you might find another topic to go muddy up. 


You seem to not read well.

I don't mind people singing about being gay.

Music can't be about anything because music consists of notes, not words.  There is not a gay F# note is there?

You are treading dangerously close to "words don't mean anything."

Words have meaning, right?

But you do seem kind of mad about people talking about gay people who sing.


Can you show me where?

You edited your first post in the topic but it was originally pretty hostile and dismissive towards the entire idea of the thread.


Yes I did.  I didn't say what I wanted to say clearly (after reviewing it).  That's why I fixed it. 

Edit: I disagree that it was "pretty hostile and dismissive." 




Edited by Epignosis - March 28 2012 at 21:57
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Posts: 651 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 40footwolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 22:01
Originally posted by Epignosis

Originally posted by 40footwolf

Originally posted by Epignosis

Originally posted by 40footwolf

Originally posted by Epignosis

Originally posted by Man Overboard

Epignosis, your argument seems to be "music can't be about anything, even if its lyrics and tropes are primarily about something, so this discussion is pointless". If this is your argument, know you're picking over semantics and coming dangerously close to being committed to derailing this topic. I know this forum's standards for discourse are fairly low, but can we at least try to discuss the topic at hand? If you've nothing constructive to say re: LGBT issues in prog, perhaps you might find another topic to go muddy up. 


You seem to not read well.

I don't mind people singing about being gay.

Music can't be about anything because music consists of notes, not words.  There is not a gay F# note is there?

You are treading dangerously close to "words don't mean anything."

Words have meaning, right?

But you do seem kind of mad about people talking about gay people who sing.


Can you show me where?

You edited your first post in the topic but it was originally pretty hostile and dismissive towards the entire idea of the thread.


Yes I did.  I didn't say what I wanted to say clearly (after reviewing it).  That's why I fixed it. 

Edit: I disagree that it was "pretty hostile and dismissive." 



Well, that's how it read to me, and from the way other people are questioning your phrasing and position on this I don't think I'm alone. Pretty much every single post you've made here has been about dismissing the topic of the thread which, again, other people besides me have pointed out. I'm not picking on you but your behavior in regards to this subject has been very strange, almost paranoid. Like talking about LGBTQ musicians and themes in prog will do...something. I don't actually really know what your objection to the thread is except for "I'm tired of hearing about gay people" in which case nobody is forcing you to stay in the thread.


Edited by 40footwolf - March 28 2012 at 22:04
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Posts: 30914 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 22:07
Originally posted by 40footwolf

Originally posted by Epignosis

Originally posted by 40footwolf

Originally posted by Epignosis

Originally posted by 40footwolf

Originally posted by Epignosis

Originally posted by Man Overboard

Epignosis, your argument seems to be "music can't be about anything, even if its lyrics and tropes are primarily about something, so this discussion is pointless". If this is your argument, know you're picking over semantics and coming dangerously close to being committed to derailing this topic. I know this forum's standards for discourse are fairly low, but can we at least try to discuss the topic at hand? If you've nothing constructive to say re: LGBT issues in prog, perhaps you might find another topic to go muddy up. 


You seem to not read well.

I don't mind people singing about being gay.

Music can't be about anything because music consists of notes, not words.  There is not a gay F# note is there?

You are treading dangerously close to "words don't mean anything."

Words have meaning, right?

But you do seem kind of mad about people talking about gay people who sing.


Can you show me where?

You edited your first post in the topic but it was originally pretty hostile and dismissive towards the entire idea of the thread.


Yes I did.  I didn't say what I wanted to say clearly (after reviewing it).  That's why I fixed it. 

Edit: I disagree that it was "pretty hostile and dismissive." 



Well, that's how it read to me, and from the way other people are questioning your phrasing and position on this I don't think I'm alone.


Do you know what I think about homosexuality?  It isn't a secret.  It is on this forum many times.  Here it is in case you never saw it:

I am a Christian and I believe homosexuality is immoral.  However, by our US Constitution, homosexuals are free to live as they want, and I am angry that the government thinks it can decide what marriage is.  Marriage contracts should be wholly between individuals.

Now why would I be "pretty hostile and dismissive" on purpose?
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Originally posted by 40footwolf


Well, that's how it read to me, and from the way other people are questioning your phrasing and position on this I don't think I'm alone. Pretty much every single post you've made here has been about dismissing the topic of the thread which, again, other people besides me have pointed out. I'm not picking on you but your behavior in regards to this subject has been very strange, almost paranoid. Like talking about LGBTQ musicians and themes in prog will do...something. I don't actually really know what your objection to the thread is except for "I'm tired of hearing about gay people" in which case nobody is forcing you to stay in the thread.

I don't know who you are but I love you for including the Q. I'm something of a Q myself. Feels good man.
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Because you want us to think the way you do. Which is normal, most people are like that. I'd like it if more people thought the way I do. You're pretending you don't want that, which is annoying.
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There's a new theatre venue down the road called Q where I went to do some booking for the upcoming comedy festival and THE TICKETS ARE BRIGHT PINK. WHERE ARE THEY GOING WITH THIS?
The giant letter Q alone, fine.
The bright pink colour alone, fine.
 
BUT TOGETHER THEY VOLTRON LIKE FORM THE HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA BEING RAMMED DOWN YOUR THROAT AGAIN AND AGAIN UNTIL YOU GAG.
 
Epignosis certainly wouldn't attend. Unless it was Pink Floyd, that would be justified.
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