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Joined: April 19 2011
Location: America
Status: Offline
Points: 877
Posted: March 19 2012 at 09:35
tarkusnj wrote:
< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0"> [QUOTE=Slartibartfast] [QUOTE=richardh]There have been a load of bad remsasterings of Brain Salad Surgery. My favourite album as well. The DVD audio is not very good either sadly.
This is not meant to be sarcastic but I would check your equipment or your hearing. Or I would just assume you have poor judgement.
Hi tarkusnj,
When the original poster slammed the Brain Salad Surgery DVD-Audio, I bit my lip so hard, drawing blood, not to say anything, as, arguing an opinion would be fruitless. However, the BSS DVD-Audio is in fact breath-taking, so I spent the weekend searching for a review I read many years ago about the actual process that gave us BSS on DVD-Audio. Sadly I guess the tech review was so old I couldn't find it. So with regret all I have is an opinion to offer. Which is, I would have no clue as to why the original poster was so negative. BSS on DVD-Audio is perhaps one of the finest high resolution 5.1 remixing projects ever done. I do have the DVD-Audio BSS dics and a decent 5.1 system, and all I can do is rant like a lunatic, singing its praises. The article went into great detail on how each original track of the multi-track was meticulously converted to digital on A/D converters costing hundreds of thousands. This work was a technical masterpiece as well as a labor of love by the re-mixing engineer. I sure wish I could find that damn review. It explains all clearly & in great detail.
Suffice to say, I will keep and cherish and more importantly, PLAY, the BSS DVD-Audio until the day I die.
I hope the new re-mix of Tarkus comes out half as good.
Cheers!
DM
"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire
Joined: November 26 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1217
Posted: March 19 2012 at 08:00
tarkusnj wrote:
< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0">. The ONLY great sounding STEREO version of BSS is a downmix of the BSS DVD-A disc. LIsten to that THEN talk to me. Any other stereo mix PALES in comparison...not even close.
Is it a big problem to switch the sound to stereo and stop hating this DVD-Audio?
[/QUOTE]
I accidently quoted "richardh's post regarding hating the DVD-Audio version of BSS as I LOVE the DVD-A version of BSS. As far as the downmix of BSS DVD-A to stereo, I ripped the 6 individual 96/24 wavs myself and mixed them to stereo then burned them to cd. The sound quality FAR surpasses and previous official stereo "remaster". [/QUOTE]
I made myself a rip of the vinyl. Sure its a little crackly, but its better than the Shout! Factory version. Whatever happened to Karn Evil 9 on that one?
Continue the prog discussion here: http://zombyprog.proboards.com/index.cgi ...
< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0">. The ONLY great sounding STEREO version of BSS is a downmix of the BSS DVD-A disc. LIsten to that THEN talk to me. Any other stereo mix PALES in comparison...not even close. [/QUOTE]
Is it a big problem to switch the sound to stereo and stop hating this DVD-Audio?
[/QUOTE]
I accidently quoted "richardh's post regarding hating the DVD-Audio version of BSS as I LOVE the DVD-A version of BSS. As far as the downmix of BSS DVD-A to stereo, I ripped the 6 individual 96/24 wavs myself and mixed them to stereo then burned them to cd. The sound quality FAR surpasses and previous official stereo "remaster".
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 7678
Posted: March 18 2012 at 19:28
tarkusnj wrote:
I really hate that DVD audio version with a vengeance! So so bland. ................................................... The ONLY great sounding STEREO version of BSS is a downmix of the BSS DVD-A disc. LIsten to that THEN talk to me. Any other stereo mix PALES in comparison...not even close.
Is it a big problem to switch the sound to stereo and stop hating this DVD-Audio?
Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
[QUOTE=tarkusnj]< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0"> [QUOTE=Slartibartfast] [QUOTE=richardh]There have been a load of bad remsasterings of Brain Salad Surgery. My favourite album as well. The DVD audio is not very good either sadly.
This is not meant to be sarcastic but I would check your equipment or your hearing. Or I would just assume you have poor judgement.
I really hate that DVD audio version with a vengeance! So so bland.
I do however like the recent deluxe edition of Welcome Back My Friends which includes nearly all of BSS played live. There is a also a 'straight from boards' live version of KE9 on the bonus disc of The Ultimate Collection whicn blows all the other versions I've heard clean out the water.
The ONLY great sounding STEREO version of BSS is a downmix of the BSS DVD-A disc. LIsten to that THEN talk to me. Any other stereo mix PALES in comparison...not even close.
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 26156
Posted: March 18 2012 at 03:54
tarkusnj wrote:
< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0"> [QUOTE=Slartibartfast] [QUOTE=richardh]There have been a load of bad remsasterings of Brain Salad Surgery. My favourite album as well. The DVD audio is not very good either sadly.
This is not meant to be sarcastic but I would check your equipment or your hearing. Or I would just assume you have poor judgement.
I really hate that DVD audio version with a vengeance! So so bland.
I do however like the recent deluxe edition of Welcome Back My Friends which includes nearly all of BSS played live. There is a also a 'straight from boards' live version of KE9 on the bonus disc of The Ultimate Collection whicn blows all the other versions I've heard clean out the water.
Admittedly it is all a matter of taste and opinion. My equipment is average at best not high spec at all and my hearing is probably the same! 'Poor judgement' I don't know but I guess I like the rawer live sound rather than (to my ears) something that can end up being a little bit anti-septic.What was done to BSS in digital format has been depressing. The best I ever heard it was a German manufactured cassette that I bought in the seventies and played back on my Dad's Bang and Olofsen Hi-FI
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 26156
Posted: March 18 2012 at 03:45
Slartibartfast wrote:
Not having heard the remaster I suspect pictures is best appreciated in its original gory glory.
Ever since I got the DVD of them playing at the Lyceum (well it VHS to start with) I've always preferred that version to the Newcastle City Hall version. The album is just too 'clean' sounding for my taste although the performances are spot on. No amount or remastering will make it any better to my ears.
Joined: February 07 2012
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 403
Posted: March 17 2012 at 15:01
tarkusnj wrote:
This is not meant to be sarcastic but I would check your equipment or
your hearing. Or I would just assume you have poor judgement.
tarkusnj wrote:
I guess this is the wrong forum for anyone who knows sound quality.
Wow, you're really off to a good start; Insulting one member specifically and the forum in general in only two posts... Can't wait to see how you're going to top that.
(Somewhat) back on topic:
As for cd sound quality, in my opinion the earliest cd masterings are almost always the best. And this most certainly applies to ELP. S/T, Tarkus, Trilogy: The first West German Sonopress cds from the 80s, referred to as the "Yellow Manticore" pressings (and now rare as hen's teeth), are clearly superior to other masterings. And they are excellent sounding. (The MFSLs of Tarkus and Trilogy are also great, and I'd rank them on 2nd place.)
Brain Salad Surgery: The original Atlantic cd mastering, done by Barry Diament in the 80s, sounds great. Pictures at an Exhibition: Haven't heard any great mastering of this one, but the original Atlantic is not too shabby. Just a bit muffled sounding, probably due to bad tapes being used.
The newer masterings (Victory/Sanctuary, Japanese K2 and K2HD, etc) are generally suffering from overt brightness, noise reduction and/or dynamic compression, and are not to my taste. YMMV, of course.
< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0">
Not really interested in 5.1 myself (and I already have the best sounding cd masterings of classic ELP), but I thought some of you guys might like a heads-up.
[/QUOTE]
Anyone who thinks any ELP remasters sound better than the original releases of the albums on cd's in the 80's are spliting hairs here-the LP's always sounded better. As far as any ELP remasters are concerned, the ONLY releases that have a noticeable sound quality improvement were the MFSL cd's or MFSL LP releases. I guess this is the wrong forum for anyone who knows sound quality.
< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0">
[QUOTE=Slartibartfast]
[QUOTE=richardh]There have been a load of bad remsasterings of Brain Salad Surgery. My favourite album as well. The DVD audio is not very good either sadly.
This is not meant to be sarcastic but I would check your equipment or your hearing. Or I would just assume you have poor judgement.
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166178
Posted: March 17 2012 at 12:07
I'll probably skip these. (Unless there is a boatload of good bonus material)
Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 26156
Posted: March 17 2012 at 10:42
^ (He always seem to downplay any great love of the genre in interviews I've heard when he's talked about his influences.) I guess he knows more about the genre than I know about SW.
Joined: August 27 2006
Location: The Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 12938
Posted: March 17 2012 at 09:17
Kotro wrote:
richardh wrote:
There have been a load of bad remsasterings of Brain Salad Surgery. My favourite album as well. The DVD audio is not very good either sadly.
As someone suggested ,Wilson was never an ELP fan although its probably a myth that he was ever a prog fan. He does like Pink Floyd but I think the symphonic thing was never his cup of team. I can't imagine anything stranger than him being the preferred choice to remaster PAAE. Shows just how highly respected he is now and justifiably so imo.
Seems a bit to much into it for a non-fan.
Yeah that was impressive. I'd say Steven is a huge Prog fan or he just knows everything.
Joined: August 16 2004
Location: Portugal
Status: Offline
Points: 2809
Posted: March 17 2012 at 06:44
richardh wrote:
There have been a load of bad remsasterings of Brain Salad Surgery. My favourite album as well. The DVD audio is not very good either sadly.
As someone suggested ,Wilson was never an ELP fan although its probably a myth that he was ever a prog fan. He does like Pink Floyd but I think the symphonic thing was never his cup of team. I can't imagine anything stranger than him being the preferred choice to remaster PAAE. Shows just how highly respected he is now and justifiably so imo.
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ELP 5.1 remixes by Steven Wilson.
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tarkusnj wrote:
(He always seem to downplay any great love of the genre in interviews I've heard when he's talked about his influences.) I guess he knows more about the genre than I know about SW.
