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Textbook 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
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Points: 3281
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 Topic: Does Rate Your Music Have Prog Right?
Posted: April 22 2012 at 17:11 |
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Murmur is a very good album, but my two favourite REM records are New Adventures In Hi Fi and Up with Automatic For The People coming in third. Yes I'm aware this opinion isn't exactly mainstream.
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Horizons
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 20 2011
Location: Somewhere Else
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Points: 16952
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Posted: April 22 2012 at 10:03 |
Too many Floyd albums in their Top 10.
Animals is the only one i'd put there.
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: April 22 2012 at 09:48 |
Popularity breeds contempt 
4.05 vs 4.02 .... pfft! a 0.7% difference - statistically it's insignificant.
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What?
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
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Points: 22989
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Posted: April 22 2012 at 07:30 |
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'90s REM records have amazing tracks on them (the ones that made it as singles), but as albums they don't come close to their '80s albums (for me of course).
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
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Posted: April 22 2012 at 07:27 |
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^Monster is brilliant. My favourite.
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
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Posted: April 22 2012 at 07:22 |
 Textbook wrote:
There are some oddities though- for example, very few people would say Murmur by REM is a better album than Automatic For The People by REM. And yet Murmur has a higher rating. Not really sure how this kind of thing comes about. |
Personally, I think Murmur is a far better album. I believe that by the time Automatic for the People was released, the general public ate up REM releases, but those who had listened to them previously had gotten tired of Michael Stipe's sanctimonious babble, which is in full whine on songs like "Everybody Hurts" and "Man on the Moon". I ignored them after the album Document, their last great album.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
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Posted: April 22 2012 at 07:15 |
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I'd say it was better.
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
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Points: 3281
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Posted: April 22 2012 at 07:13 |
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There are some oddities though- for example, very few people would say Murmur by REM is a better album than Automatic For The People by REM. And yet Murmur has a higher rating. Not really sure how this kind of thing comes about.
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Mellotron Storm
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 27 2006
Location: The Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 12938
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Posted: April 19 2012 at 20:15 |
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I like the RYM site because any music fan can have a voice much like on here. It's built for the music fan. Sure you have to take opinions and ratings with a grain of salt, but i like reading people's opinions.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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KingCrInuYasha
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 26 2010
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1281
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Posted: April 07 2012 at 01:26 |
Textbook wrote:
Top 10 10. Selling England By The Pound - Genesis 9. Meddle - Pink Floyd 8. The Wall - Pink Floyd 7. Close To The Edge - Yes 6. Tago Mago - Can 5. Red - King Crimson 4. Animals - Pink Floyd 3. In The Court Of The Crimson King - King Crimson 2. Wish You Were Here - Pink Floyd 1. The Dark Side Of The Moon - Pink Floyd |
Not that bad of a top ten list, but I don't think Tago Mago should have been there. Ege Bamyasi or Future Days would have been much better choices.
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He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
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Points: 12681
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Posted: March 27 2012 at 15:05 |
Turillazzo wrote:
octopus-4 wrote:
Have you seen from where most of the 5-stars ratings are coming?
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Man, that's unfair.
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That is tacky. Using multiple sign-ins to beef up a score is disappointing, but not surprising. I've felt the same for quite awhile about some of the scores I've seen at RYM. There are a few albums with extremely high ratings that don't match any metric I've seen anywhere on the Internet. Or have any logic, for that matter.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Turillazzo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 31 2011
Location: Turin
Status: Offline
Points: 144
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Posted: March 27 2012 at 14:53 |
octopus-4 wrote:
Have you seen from where most of the 5-stars ratings are coming?
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Man, that's unfair.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: March 27 2012 at 02:05 |
Looking at both lists again, I don't even find much of a difference. 3 PF albums as against 5, but a pronounced PF preference all the same. From a general listener's perspective, the best bet to get into prog is to listen to the classic PF albums and then move to other accessible albums like CTTE or SEBTP, which is sort of what the list reflects. Considering that, instead of Godbluff, it has Tago Mago, I might be inclined to argue it is more progressive  . Just joking, but I certainly wouldn't have any VDGG album in my top 10 so I don't think it's mandatory in any case.
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 13355
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Posted: March 26 2012 at 14:57 |
Have you seen from where most of the 5-stars ratings are coming?
I'll post it in the reviews reporting thread
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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com
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Nogbad_The_Bad
Forum & Site Admin Group
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team
Joined: March 16 2007
Location: Boston
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Posted: March 26 2012 at 14:17 |
KingCrimson250 wrote:
EDIT: Although, bizzarely, a Yes tribute album with no reviews seems to have snuck it's way into the #11 slot over here. |
That is adorable, 11th greatest prog album of all time. Guess there are lies damn lies & statistics. 
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KingCrimson250
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 29 2008
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Points: 573
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Posted: March 26 2012 at 11:03 |
Dean wrote:
No. That is precisely not what is happening. The RYM prog chart is not general listeners relating to prog at all, it's a chart of albums rated by RYM members that just happen to be prog albums - they didn't rate them because they were prog nor did they rate them for being prog, they rated them because they were albums they liked (be that classic rock or statium rock or dad rock or space rock or prog rock or whatever).
Looking at it over simplistcally, for half the people who rated the albums that appear in the top 10 of the RYM prog chart Pink Floyd was the only prog band they rated, and of those half of them Dark Side Of The Moon was the only Pink Floyd album they rated.
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Yep. While it seems silly to compare which poll is "better," I would certainly say that PA's Top Albums is more representative of the tastes of your average prog fan. RYM obviously has a very heavy Pink Floyd bias, for the reasons mentioned above.
In other words, if someone were to ask me what are considered to be the best Prog albums, I would direct them here rather than there.
EDIT: Although, bizzarely, a Yes tribute album with no reviews seems to have snuck it's way into the #11 slot over here.
Edited by KingCrimson250 - March 26 2012 at 11:06
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JS19
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 10 2010
Location: Lancaster, UK
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Points: 1321
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Posted: March 25 2012 at 04:02 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
It's 100% accurate. It takes their algorithm and gives the results. It's just as good as any other listing of prog done by a ratings site.
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Except it's voted for by mainly non-prog fans, so with Pink Floyd being the most accepted prog group in normal rock listening, then it's expected that more PF will turn up.
I like to think of it as a top 10 for people who don't have any special interest in prog.
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ProgEpics
Forum Groupie
Joined: September 05 2010
Location: Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 92
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Posted: March 23 2012 at 10:13 |
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Love beach should be on that bottom 10 lol.
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Come on you target for faraway laughter,
Come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine!
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: March 23 2012 at 06:47 |
Dean wrote:
Not only does it include people who are not mainly into prog, it is people who are mainly not into prog. 50 million people bought Dark Side of the Moon - a tiny tiny proportion of those were people who were mainly into prog, or even remotely into prog, or even knew that Pink Floyd were prog. Accessible music doesn't achive Pink Floyd like popularity very often either, not even U2 or Radiohead have achieved that level (nor do I suspect they ever will now).
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Yes, I agree. What I was trying to imply by accessibility was that Floyd transcended their box and made stuff that happens to be archived as prog but doesn't really require one to be a proghead to enjoy it. There may be sundry prog albums like that but I can't think of any other prog rock band who achieved that balance with so much potency. DSOTM especially is more than a product of its time but does not at the same time require one to follow a particular scene or style closely to enjoy it. Somewhat like Beatles in the 60s and had Beatles been archived as prog, they and Floyd would probably shut out the few SEBTPs and Reds that sneaked into this list. So, I am in fact trying to say that it is more than just popularity. A prog top 10 made anywhere other than on a prog website or magazine is likely to be crowded with Floyd because, as I said before, they did a lot of things other bands didn't. Not that they were better or the other bands worse, they just reached out to a large audience in a way that cuts across generations (as opposed to popular music which fades with its epoch).
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: March 23 2012 at 06:31 |
rogerthat wrote:
Dean wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
Simple...RYM has the prog top 10 as general listeners relate to prog and prog archives, probably in line with what hardcore progheads make of it. Pink Floyd tend to score highly on both depth and appeal/accessibility so it's not surprising to see them dominate the RYM list. You can argue that there are better albums than those PF ones but it's hard to really put down most of them. |
No. That is precisely not what is happening. The RYM prog chart is not general listeners relating to prog at all, it's a chart of albums rated by RYM members that just happen to be prog albums - they didn't rate them because they were prog nor did they rate them for being prog, they rated them because they were albums they liked (be that classic rock or statium rock or dad rock or space rock or prog rock or whatever).
Looking at it over simplistcally, for half the people who rated the albums that appear in the top 10 of the RYM prog chart Pink Floyd was the only prog band they rated, and of those half of them Dark Side Of The Moon was the only Pink Floyd album they rated.
rogerthat wrote:
And I say hard in terms of building a consensus, not in terms of finding a minority who don't like most of their albums, which is fine and unrelated to this. |
Not sure what you mean by this. I would say RYM was a consensus of people many of whom hadn't heard most of their albums.
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It could and most likely does include people who are not mainly into prog, yes? Pink Floyd is a band that broke through into classic rock and that is why outside prog circles, they are the band most often recalled of all prog rock bands and Dark Side the one most recalled of their albums. So, yes, I am equating popularity to accessibility and appeal because inaccessible music doesn't achieve PF-like popularity very often. It could potentially be a dangerous generalization but I don't think that is the case here; PF is the only one of prog rock bands with a reasonable following that truly struck the balance and that is ultimately reflected in their dominating a top 10 prog rock albums list. If it were a list compiled by a general rock magazine, the results wouldn't be very different. I don't see that as only popularity but also as Floyd doing certain things that other bands didn't.
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Not only does it include people who are not mainly into prog, it is people who are mainly not into prog. 50 million people bought Dark Side of the Moon - a tiny tiny proportion of those were people who were mainly into prog, or even remotely into prog, or even knew that Pink Floyd were prog. Accessible music doesn't achive Pink Floyd like popularity very often either, not even U2 or Radiohead have achieved that level (nor do I suspect they ever will now).
When we transfer that over to RYM look at the numbers of ratings and the numbers of reviews in the chart ... twice as many people voted and rated Dark Side of the Moon over any album by every other Prog band, it's only when you get to Meddle do you start to see numbers that are even comparable to most other prog album (except In The Court of the Crimson King) - Pink Floyd outstrip the lesser known Prog bands in the RYM top 100 Prog albums by a factor of 10 to 1 (even the soundtrack albums More and Obscured By Clouds have more ratings than many of the albums in the top 100)... as far as the voters of RYM are concerned Close To The Edge and Selling England by the Pound are equivalent in popularity (ie the count of the number of ratings rather than the average rating) to Atom Heart Mother (hardly a big selling PF album inspite of it being #1 in the UK on its release in 1970).
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Does Rate Your Music Have Prog Right?
