Progarchives.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Do PA proggers have the right prog balance?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum SearchSearch  Calendar   Register Register  Login Login

Do PA proggers have the right prog balance?
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 678910 11>
Author
Message
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
ExittheLemming View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: October 19 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6109 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Do PA proggers have the right prog balance?
    Posted: April 01 2012 at 07:38
Originally posted by Snow Dog

Better stop the Hebrew now guys.

?טוב




Yes, it would be appreciated by we gentiles Wink
'It's been great. The weather, the stadium, the game. Only the result was s.h.i.t' (Jurgen Klopp)
Back to Top
Progarchives.com
Advertisement 		Sponsored links (registered users, log in to remove)
 
frippism View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: July 27 2010
Location: Tel Aviv
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3683 		Post Options Post Options   Quote frippism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2012 at 10:39
I guess we can allow the goys to understand us :).
There be dragons
THE GREATEST BLOG IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE
Back to Top
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 33102 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2012 at 11:10
Oyveh!
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
Back to Top
dr prog View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 633 		Post Options Post Options   Quote dr prog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2012 at 08:02
Length of song has nothing to Do with quality prog. It's the quality of the music which matters. Ball is butterflys prog album. Metamorphosis is just a bland hard rock album
Originally posted by The Dark Elf

Originally posted by dr prog

Originally posted by The Dark Elf

Originally posted by dr prog

I'm back Cool
I think alot of proggers in here dont have a real sense for melody. They seem to get excited over albums which lack melody and are filled with experimenting or heavy riffing or they get excited over music which is way over done. You need the composer to go with the musicianship. There's a number albums which clearly require some genius in the compositions which are ignored in here for much blander albums which may have a heavy riff or a trippy moment here and there. Certain albums which are considered a bands prog triumph just seem to a bit of a snooze when it comes to composition. While some albums are just Over Progged.
 
Please give specific examples of which albums, in your brobdingnagianly contumelious opinion,<SPAN id=hotword> are compositions of genius but are ignored, and which are blander albums but rate highly here. When you make rather arrogant statements like "alot of proggers in here dont have a real sense for melody", it makes me wonder if you have the slightest idea what you are talking about. Offering what you consider overrated and underrated will at least allow me the opportunity to better understand your pretensions.</SPAN>

 

Many albums. Here's one of many example

 

Look at the ratings of these 3 albums. Ball is definately the best imo

 

Iron butterfly-ball/in a gadda/metamorphisis

 



You made a sweeping statement regarding many posters on this forum, but then all you could offer is a limp "Many albums"? That is not acceptable. And then come up with  Iron Butterfly? Your basing your assessment on them? Seriously? 

 

If anything, the only reason for discussing Iron Butterlfy at all is the 20-some-minute-long "In-A-Gadda-Davida" and let it go at that. They are a footnote in a discussion regarding psychedelia and no more. All of their albums are extremely inconsistent and dreadful for the most part. But really, Iron Butterfly is marginal to prog at best.

 

And what exactly about Iron Butterfly is melodic? Do you even know what the definition of melodic is? I looked up "melodic" in the dictionary, and no where was Iron Butterfly synonymous with the word. Try again.
Back to Top
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 33102 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2012 at 08:03
^It makes more sense to comment after the quoted posts.
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Forum & Site Admin Group
Forum & Site Admin Group
Avatar
Site Admin

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Albion
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 29381 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2012 at 08:14
Originally posted by Snow Dog

^It makes more sense to comment after the quoted posts.
Do you really think that post will make more sense?


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman
Back to Top
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 33102 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2012 at 08:19
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by Snow Dog

^It makes more sense to comment after the quoted posts.
Do you really think that post will make more sense?

You got me on that one.Beer
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
Back to Top
The Dark Elf View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1592 		Post Options Post Options   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2012 at 08:51
Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by Snow Dog

^It makes more sense to comment after the quoted posts.
Do you really think that post will make more sense?

You got me on that one.Beer
 
Perhaps it is a literary interpretation of  the musical term "minimalism". If so, it was successful.
Please pay a visit to my blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music reviews, literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.
Back to Top
dr prog View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 633 		Post Options Post Options   Quote dr prog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2012 at 18:38
The more I listen to Oblivion express-Better land the more brilliant it becomes. It craps on an album from the same year such as Nursery Cryme which is rated almost 5 stars lol. Talk about Brainwashing Cool
Another enjoyable album with a crap rating is Abacus-Midway. Love the first 4 songs plus Be Beholding, Midway and Here we go.


Edited by dr prog - April 07 2012 at 18:42
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Forum & Site Admin Group
Forum & Site Admin Group
Avatar
Site Admin

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Albion
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 29381 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2012 at 19:03
Originally posted by dr prog

The more I listen to Oblivion express-Better land the more brilliant it becomes. It craps on an album from the same year such as Nursery Cryme which is rated almost 5 stars lol. Talk about Brainwashing Cool
Another enjoyable album with a crap rating is Abacus-Midway. Love the first 4 songs plus Be Beholding, Midway and Here we go.
There are better ways of stating your affection for a artist/album without being a complete jerk about it.Stern Smile


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman
Back to Top
Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Symphonic Prog Specialist

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17117 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2012 at 20:59
Originally posted by dr prog

The more I listen to Oblivion express-Better land the more brilliant it becomes. It craps on an album from the same year such as Nursery Cryme which is rated almost 5 stars lol. Talk about Brainwashing Cool
Another enjoyable album with a crap rating is Abacus-Midway. Love the first 4 songs plus Be Beholding, Midway and Here we go.

It's absurd to imply ratings are caused by brainwashing for several reasons:

  1. A great percentage of ratings is made by people who come here, rate a couple of albums, never visit the forum, and the rating of this guys 4.44 IN 101 RATINGS
  2. Most Prog Collaborators are people with years or even decades of of listening Prog, we come here with a previous knowledge, nobody tells us what to like, we know what we like even before joining PA, and our average is 4.41 in 85 reviews with ratings.
  3. 161 non collaborators reviewed this album, most of them knew this album when they joined the site and the average is almost the same
So you have 1347 persons from different countries, cultures, background who rated this album and the vast majority of them agree, we can't manipulate all this people.

But that isn't all.

Progressiveears, a different site, with different members made a poll about the top albums of 1972

1Yes - The Yes Album
2Genesis - Nursery Cryme
3Van Der Graaf Generator - Pawn Hearts
4Emerson Lake And Palmer - Tarkus
5Jethro Tull - Aqualung
6Pink Floyd - Meddle
7Mahavishnu Orchestra - The Inner Mounting Flame
8Led Zeppelin - IV
9Caravan - In The Land Of Grey & Pink
10Gentle Giant - Acquiring The Taste
11Who - Who's Next
12King Crimson - Islands
13Yes - Fragile
14Black Sabbath - Master of Reality
15Gong - Camembert Electrique
16Focus - II (aka Moving Waves)
17Ash Ra Tempel - Ash Ra Tempel
18Can - Tago Mago
19Comus - First Utterance
20Moody Blues - Every Good Boy Deserves Favour
21Deep Purple - Fireball
22Faust - Faust
23Doors - L.A Woman
24Cressida - Asylum
25Arthur Brown's Kingdom Come - Galactic Zoo Dossier
26Allman Brothers Band - Live at the Fillmore East
27Hawkwind - In Search Of Space
 John Lennon - Imagine
29Magma - 1001° Centigrade
30Santana - III
31Paul McCartney - Ram
32Rolling Stones - Sticky Fingers
33Tangerine Dream - Alpha Centauri
34Strawbs - From the Witchwood
35Alice Cooper - Killer
 Amon Duul II - Tanz der Lemminge (Dance of the Lemmings)
 Traffic - The Low Spark of High Heeled Boys
38Beach Boys - Surf's Up
39Embryo - Embryo's Rache
 Gracious - This Is.....Gracious!
41Ornette Coleman - Science Fiction
42Spring - Spring
43Moving Gelatine Plates - Moving Gelatine Plates
44Culpeper's Orchard - Culpeper's Orchard
 Wigwam - Fairyport
46Curved Air - Second Album
47David Bowie - Hunky Dory
48Uriah Heep - Look at Yourself
49Second Hand - Death May Be Your Santa Claus
50Miles Davis - Live Evil
51Alice Cooper - Love it to Death
 Gila - Gila
53Carla Bley - Escalator Over the Hill
54Family - Fearless
55Carole King - Tapestry
56Peter Hammill - Fools Mate
 Spectrum - Spectrum Part 1
58Catapilla - Catapilla
 Colosseum - Colosseum Live
60Joni Mitchell - Blue
 Osibisa - Osibisa
62Weather Report - Weather Report
63Out of Focus - Out of Focus
 Roy Harper - Stormcock
65Sly and the Family Stone - There's a Riot Goin' On
 Stackridge - Stackridge
67Frank Zappa - 200 Motels
68Eloy - Eloy
 New Trolls - Concerto Grosso per i New Trolls
70Nine Days Wonder - Nine Days Wonder
71T-Rex - Electric Warrior
72Alan Stivell - Renaissance de l'Harpe Celtique
 Pink Floyd - Relics
 Raw Material - Time Is
75Funkadelic - Maggot Brain
 Jefferson Airplane - Bark
 Kahvas Jute - Wide Open
78Beggars Opera - Waters of Change
 Uriah Heep - Salisbury
80Nucleus - We'll Talk About It Later
81Amazing Blondel - Fantasia Lindum
 Bob Dylan - Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits Vol. II
 Eiliff - Eiliff
 George Benson - White Rabbit
 Marsupilami - Arena
 Move - Looking On
87Jimi Hendrix - The Cry of Love
 Supersister - To the Highest Bidder
89Chain - Towards The Blues
 Donald Byrd - Ethiopian Knights
 Groundhogs - Split
 Maddy Prior / Tim Hart - Summer Solstice
 Nektar - Journey to the Centre of the Eye
 Polyphony - Without Introduction
95Marvin Gaye - What's Going On
96Felt - Felt
 Fields - Fields
 Frank Zappa - Live at the Fillmore, June 1971
 Jade Warrior - Jade Warrior
 Masters Apprentices - Choice Cuts
 Mogul Thrash - Mogul Thrash
102Captain Beefheart - The Spotlight Kid
 Soft Machine - Fourth
 Thor's Hammer - Thor's Hammer
105Achim Reichel & Machines - Die Grune Reise (The Green Journey)
 Carly Simon - Carly Simon
 Catherine Ribeiro & Alpes - Ame Debout
 Company Caine - A Product Of Broken Reality
 Flute and Voice - Imaginations of Light
 Grateful Dead - Grateful Dead
 Hampton Grease Band - Music to Eat
 Pharoah Sanders - Black Unity
 Yoko Ono - Fly
114Delivery - Fools Meeting
 Janice Joplin - Pearl
 Steeleye Span - Ten Man Mop
 Supertramp - Indelibly Stamped
118Carly Simon - Anticipation
 Fresh Maggots - Fresh Maggots
 John Entwistle - Smash Your Head Against the Wall
 Le Orme - Collage
 Procol Harum - Broken Barricades
123Badfinger - Straight Up
 Carpenters - The Carpenters
 Crosby Stills Nash and Young - Four Way Street
 Guru Guru - Hinten
 Little Feat - Little Feat
 War - War
129Centipede - Septober Energy
 David Crosby - If Only I Could Remember My Name
 Ikarus - Ikarus
 Indian Summer - Indian Summer
 Mainhorse - Mainhorse
 Mark-Almond - Mark-Almond
 Rare Earth - Rare Earth In Concert
136Between - Einsteig
 Buon Vecchio Charlie - Buon Vecchio Charlie
 Don McClean - American Pie
 Fairport Convention - Babbacomb Lee
 Fläsket Brinner - Fläsket Brinner
 I Giganti - Terra in Bocca
 John Cale/Terry Riley - Church of Anthrax
 Lobby Loyde - Plays With George Guitar
 Mandrill - Mandrill
 McDonald & Giles - McDonald & Giles
 Renaissance - Illusion
 Rod Stewart - Every Picture Tells a Story
 Thin Lizzy - Thin Lizzy
 Various Artists - The Concert for Bangladesh
 

Guess what...Nursery Cryme was considered the second best album

But that's not all, the same site made a poll about the best Prog albums ever

1Yes - Close To The Edge
2Genesis - The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
3Genesis - Selling England By The Pound
4Yes - Relayer
5King Crimson - In The Court Of The Crimson King
6Genesis - Foxtrot
7Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon
8King Crimson - Red
9Yes - Tales From Topographic Oceans
10Emerson Lake and Palmer - Brain Salad Surgery
11Jethro Tull - Thick As A Brick
12Yes - The Yes Album
13King Crimson - Larks Tongues In Aspic
14Yes - Fragile
15Genesis - Nursery Cryme

Only 2 spots after our position in N° 13

So, we can't manipulate or brainwash people who listen Prog worldwide, if the album is there, it's because it deserves that rating

Now, Oblivion Express-Better Land  has a very poor rating in ProgArchives, but if you check the Top Progressive Album Poll Results in Progressiveears, this album is not in the Top 515 albums of all times.

BTW: 
  1. GEPR.net, doesn't even mention Oblivion Express neither Brian Auger
  2. Prognosis.com doesn't even review the album, and only says about Oblivion Express:  Born Jul 18, 1939 in London, England 
    Keyboard player Brain Auger started in the mid 60-s playing funky-fusion music. ""

Is there a chance you may be the one hat is wrong?

Iván
Back to Top
The Dark Elf View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1592 		Post Options Post Options   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2012 at 22:08
Originally posted by dr prog

The more I listen to Oblivion express-Better land the more brilliant it becomes. It craps on an album from the same year such as Nursery Cryme which is rated almost 5 stars lol. Talk about Brainwashing Cool
Another enjoyable album with a crap rating is Abacus-Midway. Love the first 4 songs plus Be Beholding, Midway and Here we go.
 
To be honest, I had never heard of the album Better Land. So in fairness, I listened to several tracks that were available on YouTube. My assessment: Elevator muzak for an old hippie high-rise. The lyrics are insipid blandities breezily hummed over a jazz-lite score that Crosby, Stills and Nash would be embarrassed to sing. I was bored to tears after the third song. Here is a sample...
 
 
It is neither memorable nor moving. If I wanted to listen to jazz, it wouldn't be this album, and it really hasn't much to do with prog-rock. My dentist has better music in his office. In any case, Nursery Cryme doesn't have to worry about competition in the rankings from this album. You couldn't brainwash that many reviewers. LOL
 
The next question would obviously be: are you Brian Auger's agent trying desperately to sell some remasters?
Please pay a visit to my blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music reviews, literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.
Back to Top
Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Symphonic Prog Specialist

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17117 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2012 at 00:09
Originally posted by The Dark Elf

Originally posted by dr prog

The more I listen to Oblivion express-Better land the more brilliant it becomes. It craps on an album from the same year such as Nursery Cryme which is rated almost 5 stars lol. Talk about Brainwashing Cool
Another enjoyable album with a crap rating is Abacus-Midway. Love the first 4 songs plus Be Beholding, Midway and Here we go.
 
To be honest, I had never heard of the album Better Land. So in fairness, I listened to several tracks that were available on YouTube. My assessment: Elevator muzak for an old hippie high-rise. The lyrics are insipid blandities breezily hummed over a jazz-lite score that Crosby, Stills and Nash would be embarrassed to sing. I was bored to tears after the third song. Here is a sample...
 
 
It is neither memorable nor moving. If I wanted to listen to jazz, it wouldn't be this album, and it really hasn't much to do with prog-rock. My dentist has better music in his office. In any case, Nursery Cryme doesn't have to worry about competition in the rankings from this album. You couldn't brainwash that many reviewers. LOL
 
The next question would obviously be: are you Brian Auger's agent trying desperately to sell some remasters?

In a Gadda Da Vida
Better Land

and now 



Abacus Midway

Seems that Dr Prog has an obsession with Flower Power jamming.

I love Psyche, but jamming is not melody, it's just improvisation.

Iván
Back to Top
Horizons View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Math Rock Team

Joined: January 20 2011
Location: Somewhere Else
Online Status: Online
Posts: 10113 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Horizons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2012 at 00:20
Both of those songs are bad. 
In winter decay, when hope and plans seem all but gone
You have found a way,to make me seem like almost drawn
Back to Top
Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Symphonic Prog Specialist

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17117 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2012 at 00:35
Originally posted by Horizons

Both of those songs are bad. 

Not bad, but many Psych bands were doing better stuff before, like


LAGONIA - Someday - Peru

They really combined Jamming with great Hammond.solos. The album is  credited  as recorded in 1971, but was in the radios  several years before, sadly a Communist Government banned Rock in 1968, so they could only get sponsors that had the balls to confront General Velazco in 1971.

Iván





Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 08 2012 at 00:38
Back to Top
dr prog View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 633 		Post Options Post Options   Quote dr prog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2012 at 05:27
Originally posted by The Dark Elf

Originally posted by dr prog

The more I listen to Oblivion express-Better land the more brilliant it becomes. It craps on an album from the same year such as Nursery Cryme which is rated almost 5 stars lol. Talk about Brainwashing Cool
Another enjoyable album with a crap rating is Abacus-Midway. Love the first 4 songs plus Be Beholding, Midway and Here we go.
 
To be honest, I had never heard of the album Better Land. So in fairness, I listened to several tracks that were available on YouTube. My assessment: Elevator muzak for an old hippie high-rise. The lyrics are insipid blandities breezily hummed over a jazz-lite score that Crosby, Stills and Nash would be embarrassed to sing. I was bored to tears after the third song. Here is a sample...
 
 
It is neither memorable nor moving. If I wanted to listen to jazz, it wouldn't be this album, and it really hasn't much to do with prog-rock. My dentist has better music in his office. In any case, Nursery Cryme doesn't have to worry about competition in the rankings from this album. You couldn't brainwash that many reviewers. LOL
 
The next question would obviously be: are you Brian Auger's agent trying desperately to sell some remasters?
 
Great track. 100 times better than Harold the barrel lol. Amateur rubbish
Back to Top
dr prog View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 633 		Post Options Post Options   Quote dr prog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2012 at 05:31
Originally posted by Horizons

Both of those songs are bad. 
 
That's not possible unless you are a modern progger. Yawn Smile
Back to Top
dr prog View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 633 		Post Options Post Options   Quote dr prog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2012 at 05:38
Nothing Flower power about Oblivion Express lol. Here's flower power for you Big smile
 
Back to Top
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 33102 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2012 at 05:38
Either Dr Prog is trolling or just taking the piss. Ignore him is best.
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
Back to Top
frippism View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: July 27 2010
Location: Tel Aviv
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3683 		Post Options Post Options   Quote frippism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2012 at 05:39
Yes dear god please make it stop
There be dragons
THE GREATEST BLOG IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 678910 11>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.69
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.219 seconds.