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Yes Classic Survivor: Fragile R2

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Poll Question: ****Choose your LEAST favorite****
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
2 [4.55%]
14 [31.82%]
0 [0.00%]
24 [54.55%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
3 [6.82%]
1 [2.27%]
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    Posted: April 02 2012 at 11:58
***POLL CLOSED***

Five Percent For Nothing is eliminated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2012 at 20:19
As a matter of fact, Heart of the Sunrise is my least favourite of the non-solo tracks, despite the fact that for many people it is the quintesential Yes track. I have grown to like it more, but there is still something that puts me off with that song. I like better the live version with ABWH... somehow vocals and drums are more emotional on that version.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghost_of_morphy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2012 at 10:40
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

5%. I actually like "We have Heaven".
Heart of the Sunrise is the still the track I consistantly skip, but I agree that We Have Heaven is quite creative in it's own way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DisgruntledPorcupine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2012 at 21:22
Originally posted by dennismoore dennismoore wrote:

Originally posted by iamathousandapples iamathousandapples wrote:

Well why not have the masterpieces as polls? That seems like the whole fun in having it, is having a bunch of different opinions of what song you like the least on it on an album you love and keeping it going. Otherwise you wind up with polls like Deloused that last a day because everyone can say "yeah, that song sucks" unanimously.


Dear Spaceghost with funny red turbin,

That is an outstanding idea!   I think you have solved this mess. Big smile  Tongue  Smile

Which albums for a given band are to be considered a masterpiece?
When it comes to the term "masterpiece", there is 0 objectivity involved. The only objective things are what instruments are used and info about the members of the band, length of songs, time signatures, stuff like that. Other than that, music is 0% objective.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2012 at 20:42
5%. I actually like "We have Heaven".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iamathousandapples Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2012 at 20:22
Originally posted by dennismoore dennismoore wrote:

Originally posted by iamathousandapples iamathousandapples wrote:

Well why not have the masterpieces as polls? That seems like the whole fun in having it, is having a bunch of different opinions of what song you like the least on it on an album you love and keeping it going. Otherwise you wind up with polls like Deloused that last a day because everyone can say "yeah, that song sucks" unanimously.


Dear Spaceghost with funny red turbin,

That is an outstanding idea!   I think you have solved this mess. Big smile  Tongue  Smile

Which albums for a given band are to be considered a masterpiece?

there's always everything on the top 100. Really though I think it comes down to what most people on the forum think, because while I think an album like DEP's Option Paralysis could contend with that definition, I know a lot of other people would disagree with that. And it's not really something we can classify due to it's subjectivity.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dennismoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2012 at 20:19
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Looks like there is no way to get you out of thinking objectively, Dennis Big smile . You just can't accept other people's opinion Smile .


I think somebody just called me an idiot.Confused

LOL


Seriously, I think we just solved this mess.  Check the above post.  Wink




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dennismoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2012 at 20:18
Originally posted by iamathousandapples iamathousandapples wrote:

Well why not have the masterpieces as polls? That seems like the whole fun in having it, is having a bunch of different opinions of what song you like the least on it on an album you love and keeping it going. Otherwise you wind up with polls like Deloused that last a day because everyone can say "yeah, that song sucks" unanimously.


Dear Spaceghost with funny red turbin,

That is an outstanding idea!   I think you have solved this mess. Big smile  Tongue  Smile

Which albums for a given band are to be considered a masterpiece?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2012 at 20:12
Looks like there is no way to get you out of thinking objectively, Dennis Big smile . You just can't accept other people's opinion Smile .

Edited by Dayvenkirq - March 30 2012 at 20:15
"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iamathousandapples Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2012 at 20:09
Originally posted by dennismoore dennismoore wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by dennismoore dennismoore wrote:

C'mon man! 
 "...smoking crack with those street hookers in that cheap hotel and thinking there was a bad track on YES - Fragile"
was one of my best lines!  You gotta give me some credit for that, no?
I give you credit for that, although I fail to see the meaning of that line.
Originally posted by dennismoore dennismoore wrote:

Roundabout - Heart Of The Sunrise - Long Distance Runaround - put prog on the map, period.  No opinion here dude.
Oh, you are guilty as charged for saying that Big smile . Why are people beating on each other's heads over why 5% should go or why 'We Have Heaven' should go? Maybe what you meant was that the true value of a record lies in its potential, not the absence of thereof?


The point is one must be on crack to think there is a bad track on Fragile  Smile

You said:  " what you meant was that the true value of a record lies in its potential, not the absence of thereof?"

I think you are too smart for me.  I can hardly understand that, but it sounds deep. Big smile

I do think some records are foundational(just a nice way to say classic) and are much bigger and more important than the average record which may have great and some not so great tracks.  So I stand up for Fragile not as a fan, but for some semblance of order to allow discourse to continue without evolving into simple chaos.

Let me try it this way:

For example, I truly love RUSH, if there were polls here on 2 RUSH CDs in particular...

RUSH - Caress of Steel.  Certainly some tracks are great some not so.  We could easily have a poll on which tracks are weakest.

RUSH - Hemispheres.  No poll possible. That is a masterpiece, no low points to single out.

So YES - Fragile. Masterpiece, no low points to argue about

YES - Tormato.  Some great, some not.  That would be fine to discuss everybody's opinion on what song is worse, with nobody's opinion being better.

Same as you can't say: Which part of the ceiling painting of the Sistene Chapel sucks?  Answer: No part.

Ah, so who decides what is a masterpiece?  That is the problem....

I humbly take the liberty of saying that records like YES - Fragile, CTTE or ELP - BSS are masterpieces
this is after these records have survived decades of critical listening & analysis.  I am no expert for sure, I just pick
these albums among many but I do think they fit in that category.

If somebody thinks I am an idiot for saying that, than on this public forum, I expect I will hear that sooner or later. LOL


Well why not have the masterpieces as polls? That seems like the whole fun in having it, is having a bunch of different opinions of what song you like the least on it on an album you love and keeping it going. Otherwise you wind up with polls like Deloused that last a day because everyone can say "yeah, that song sucks" unanimously.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dennismoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2012 at 20:04
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by dennismoore dennismoore wrote:

C'mon man! 
 "...smoking crack with those street hookers in that cheap hotel and thinking there was a bad track on YES - Fragile"
was one of my best lines!  You gotta give me some credit for that, no?
I give you credit for that, although I fail to see the meaning of that line.
Originally posted by dennismoore dennismoore wrote:

Roundabout - Heart Of The Sunrise - Long Distance Runaround - put prog on the map, period.  No opinion here dude.
Oh, you are guilty as charged for saying that Big smile . Why are people beating on each other's heads over why 5% should go or why 'We Have Heaven' should go? Maybe what you meant was that the true value of a record lies in its potential, not the absence of thereof?


The point is one must be on crack to think there is a bad track on Fragile  Smile

You said:  " what you meant was that the true value of a record lies in its potential, not the absence of thereof?"

I think you are too smart for me.  I can hardly understand that, but it sounds deep. Big smile

I do think some records are foundational(just a nice way to say classic) and are much bigger and more important than the average record which may have great and some not so great tracks.  So I stand up for Fragile not as a fan, but for some semblance of order to allow discourse to continue without evolving into simple chaos.

Let me try it this way:

For example, I truly love RUSH, if there were polls here on 2 RUSH CDs in particular...

RUSH - Caress of Steel.  Certainly some tracks are great some not so.  We could easily have a poll on which tracks are weakest.

RUSH - Hemispheres.  No poll possible. That is a masterpiece, no low points to single out.

So YES - Fragile. Masterpiece, no low points to argue about

YES - Tormato.  Some great, some not.  That would be fine to discuss everybody's opinion on what song is worse, with nobody's opinion being better.

Same as you can't say: Which part of the ceiling painting of the Sistene Chapel sucks?  Answer: No part.

Ah, so who decides what is a masterpiece?  That is the problem....

I humbly take the liberty of saying that records like YES - Fragile, CTTE or ELP - BSS are masterpieces
this is after these records have survived decades of critical listening & analysis.  I am no expert for sure, I just pick
these albums among many but I do think they fit in that category.

If somebody thinks I am an idiot for saying that, than on this public forum, I expect I will hear that sooner or later. LOL


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2012 at 18:27
Originally posted by dennismoore dennismoore wrote:

C'mon man! 
 "...smoking crack with those street hookers in that cheap hotel and thinking there was a bad track on YES - Fragile"
was one of my best lines!  You gotta give me some credit for that, no?
I give you credit for that, although I fail to see the meaning of that line.
Originally posted by dennismoore dennismoore wrote:

Roundabout - Heart Of The Sunrise - Long Distance Runaround - put prog on the map, period.  No opinion here dude.
Oh, you are guilty as charged for saying that Big smile . Why are people beating on each other's heads over why 5% should go or why 'We Have Heaven' should go? Maybe what you meant was that the true value of a record lies in its potential, not the absence of thereof?


Edited by Dayvenkirq - March 30 2012 at 18:28
"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dennismoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2012 at 15:14
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by dennismoore dennismoore wrote:

There is no bad song and this record is a progressive music masterpiece.  So we apologize for smoking crack
with those street hookers in that cheap hotel and thinking there was a bad track on YES - Fragile.

For the masses who voted for Bruford's 5%...  That song is vintage Bill Bruford.  Lots of syncopated off time stuff with
a little bit of harmony thrown in.  Bruford isn't may favorite drummer, but that song does personify what he is about as an artist.  As I recall all the solo pieces on Fragile represent each musician pretty darn well.

Dennis, everyone has his or her own criteria for critical evaluation of various tracks. According to my criteria, 5% doesn't work for me, but it works for Zombywoof with his own criteria. Our standards are just incompatible together, I suppose. My standards also tell me that there are other tracks that can actually show what Bruford was about unless he was really proud of 5%. 

Also, we can impose our opinion on others as much as we want to, but I doubt that it is ever going to work. The best we can do is listen to music on our own terms instead of arguing with each other in an unintelligent fashion, no offense to everyone here (I hope the phrase "no offense" will work here).
 
C'mon man!
 
 "...smoking crack with those street hookers in that cheap hotel and thinking there was a bad track on YES - Fragile"
 
was one of my best lines!  You gotta give me some credit for that, no?
 
Seriously Dayvenkirq,
 
I am just having fun here.  darkshade is a pal of mine from The Flower Kings thread.  TFK thread seems like the nicest
& friendliest thread around, there is something about FK fans....   Feel free to join us over there.
 
But, yeah, YES- Fragile is a masterpiece(to me, anyway...) and without that we would not even have a progressive genre or prog metal to have this forum.  So sometimes I will get all pissy over things YES related.Tongue  LOL    Smile
 
Roundabout - Heart Of The Sunrise - Long Distance Runaround - put prog on the map, period.  No opinion here dude.
Plus the record has solo pieces for each artist, unheard of at the time, but yep, a prog first.
 
Not that I am old, I am not, but a lot of younger fans take for granted the genre and love their own bands yet they have no clue how the genre was created so they can enjoy "their" current favorite band!  YES - Fragile is one of those foundational recordings and would be a poor choice to pick apart like this.  Kinda like which is the worst track on PF Dark Side Of The Moon, kinda like which part in a Mozart symphony sucks, Answer is clearly None Of The Above.
 
Plus I seem to have 2 out of 4 posters (since my post) on my side, so I think we are doing important work here.LOL  The ones opposed I think are part of the 17 and under crowd, so they will probably come around in about 20 years, so its all good.  It will all work out in the end.Wink
 
 
 


Edited by dennismoore - March 30 2012 at 15:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dennismoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2012 at 14:56
Originally posted by Zombywoof Zombywoof wrote:

Thumbs UpIf this were facebook, I would have 'liked' this post. Clap
 
Thanks for seeing the humor in my post.  Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2012 at 12:27
Originally posted by Zombywoof Zombywoof wrote:

 
Hey, it's only music, after all!

And the best thing we can do is enjoy it, ... if we can Wink . Specifically for that group. The implication being that you would play in that way in King Crimson and in King Crimson al... . Oops, sorry LOL . Hell, I might like this track just before I die of cancer at age 68.


Edited by Dayvenkirq - March 30 2012 at 12:27
"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irrelevant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2012 at 12:25
5%, though it ain't bad I reckon.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zombywoof Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2012 at 12:23
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by dennismoore dennismoore wrote:

There is no bad song and this record is a progressive music masterpiece.  So we apologize for smoking crack
with those street hookers in that cheap hotel and thinking there was a bad track on YES - Fragile.

For the masses who voted for Bruford's 5%...  That song is vintage Bill Bruford.  Lots of syncopated off time stuff with
a little bit of harmony thrown in.  Bruford isn't may favorite drummer, but that song does personify what he is about as an artist.  As I recall all the solo pieces on Fragile represent each musician pretty darn well.

Dennis, everyone has his or her own criteria for critical evaluation of various tracks. According to my criteria, 5% doesn't work for me, but it works for Zombywoof with his own criteria. Our standards are just incompatible together, I suppose. My standards also tell me that there are other tracks that can actually show what Bruford was about unless he was really proud of 5%. 




Hey, it's only music, after all!
Continue the prog discussion here: http://zombyprog.proboards.com/index.cgi ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DisgruntledPorcupine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2012 at 12:17
Originally posted by Horizons Horizons wrote:

Originally posted by DisgruntledPorcupine DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:

Originally posted by dennismoore dennismoore wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Rules are simple. Vote for your LEAST favorite track from this album. 
 
Hey Dude, Smile
 
Please take this post in a general spirit of good will that it was written in.
 
You left out a very important option, the box for:
 
There is no bad song and this record is a progressive music masterpiece.  So we apologize for smoking crack
with those street hookers in that cheap hotel and thinking there was a bad track on YES - Fragile.
 
Uhm, kay???
 
For the masses who voted for Bruford's 5%...  That song is vintage Bill Bruford.  Lots of syncopated off time stuff with
a little bit of harmony thrown in.  Bruford isn't may favorite drummer, but that song does personify what he is about as an artist.  As I recall all the solo pieces on Fragile represent each musician pretty darn well.
 
Geesh.  Kids,  Damn Kids....
 
In the Flying Colors thread I was "invited" to go listen to some other music.
 
Why don't you lot go listen to that new Flying Colors CD or a Pat Benatar CD and get in front of a full length mirror and go play air guitar.Wink
 
Thank you for your time.
wat

Mosh 2.0

I don't think Fragile is a masterpiece. Shocked
No kidding. Ermm
 
I personally do. It took me a while to get into, now I love it to death.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horizons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2012 at 12:16
Originally posted by DisgruntledPorcupine DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:

Originally posted by dennismoore dennismoore wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Rules are simple. Vote for your LEAST favorite track from this album. 
 
Hey Dude, Smile
 
Please take this post in a general spirit of good will that it was written in.
 
You left out a very important option, the box for:
 
There is no bad song and this record is a progressive music masterpiece.  So we apologize for smoking crack
with those street hookers in that cheap hotel and thinking there was a bad track on YES - Fragile.
 
Uhm, kay???
 
For the masses who voted for Bruford's 5%...  That song is vintage Bill Bruford.  Lots of syncopated off time stuff with
a little bit of harmony thrown in.  Bruford isn't may favorite drummer, but that song does personify what he is about as an artist.  As I recall all the solo pieces on Fragile represent each musician pretty darn well.
 
Geesh.  Kids,  Damn Kids....
 
In the Flying Colors thread I was "invited" to go listen to some other music.
 
Why don't you lot go listen to that new Flying Colors CD or a Pat Benatar CD and get in front of a full length mirror and go play air guitar.Wink
 
Thank you for your time.
wat

Mosh 2.0

I don't think Fragile is a masterpiece. Shocked
I Will Write Peace All Over Your Wings And You Will Fly Around The World
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2012 at 12:16
Originally posted by dennismoore dennismoore wrote:

There is no bad song and this record is a progressive music masterpiece.  So we apologize for smoking crack
with those street hookers in that cheap hotel and thinking there was a bad track on YES - Fragile.

For the masses who voted for Bruford's 5%...  That song is vintage Bill Bruford.  Lots of syncopated off time stuff with
a little bit of harmony thrown in.  Bruford isn't may favorite drummer, but that song does personify what he is about as an artist.  As I recall all the solo pieces on Fragile represent each musician pretty darn well.

Dennis, everyone has his or her own criteria for critical evaluation of various tracks. According to my criteria, 5% doesn't work for me, but it works for Zombywoof with his own criteria. Our standards are just incompatible together, I suppose. My standards also tell me that there are other tracks that can actually show what Bruford was about unless he was really proud of 5%. 

Also, we can impose our opinion on others as much as we want to, but I doubt that it is ever going to work. The best we can do is listen to music on our own terms instead of arguing with each other in an unintelligent fashion, no offense to everyone here (I hope the phrase "no offense" will work here).


Edited by Dayvenkirq - March 30 2012 at 12:20
"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock
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