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dennismoore
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Posted: March 30 2012 at 15:14 |
Dayvenkirq wrote:
dennismoore wrote:
There is no bad song and this record is a progressive music masterpiece. So we apologize for smoking crack
with those street hookers in that cheap hotel and thinking there was a bad track on YES - Fragile.
For the masses who voted for Bruford's 5%... That song is vintage Bill Bruford. Lots of syncopated off time stuff with
a little bit of harmony thrown in. Bruford isn't may favorite drummer, but that song does personify what he is about as an artist. As I recall all the solo pieces on Fragile represent each musician pretty darn well.
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Dennis, everyone has his or her own criteria for critical evaluation of various tracks. According to my criteria, 5% doesn't work for me, but it works for Zombywoof with his own criteria. Our standards are just incompatible together, I suppose. My standards also tell me that there are other tracks that can actually show what Bruford was about unless he was really proud of 5%.
Also, we can impose our opinion on others as much as we want to, but I doubt that it is ever going to work. The best we can do is listen to music on our own terms instead of arguing with each other in an unintelligent fashion, no offense to everyone here (I hope the phrase "no offense" will work here). |
C'mon man!
"...smoking crack with those street hookers in that cheap hotel and thinking there was a bad track on YES - Fragile"
was one of my best lines! You gotta give me some credit for that, no?
Seriously Dayvenkirq,
I am just having fun here. darkshade is a pal of mine from The Flower Kings thread. TFK thread seems like the nicest
& friendliest thread around, there is something about FK fans.... Feel free to join us over there.
But, yeah, YES- Fragile is a masterpiece(to me, anyway...) and without that we would not even have a progressive genre or prog metal to have this forum. So sometimes I will get all pissy over things YES related.
Roundabout - Heart Of The Sunrise - Long Distance Runaround - put prog on the map, period. No opinion here dude.
Plus the record has solo pieces for each artist, unheard of at the time, but yep, a prog first.
Not that I am old, I am not, but a lot of younger fans take for granted the genre and love their own bands yet they have no clue how the genre was created so they can enjoy "their" current favorite band! YES - Fragile is one of those foundational recordings and would be a poor choice to pick apart like this. Kinda like which is the worst track on PF Dark Side Of The Moon, kinda like which part in a Mozart symphony sucks, Answer is clearly None Of The Above.
Plus I seem to have 2 out of 4 posters (since my post) on my side, so I think we are doing important work here. The ones opposed I think are part of the 17 and under crowd, so they will probably come around in about 20 years, so its all good. It will all work out in the end.
Edited by dennismoore - March 30 2012 at 15:18
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Dayvenkirq
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Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Points: 10970
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Posted: March 30 2012 at 18:27 |
dennismoore wrote:
"...smoking crack with those street hookers in that cheap hotel and thinking there was a bad track on YES - Fragile"
was one of my best lines! You gotta give me some credit for that, no? |
I give you credit for that, although I fail to see the meaning of that line.
dennismoore wrote:
Roundabout - Heart Of The Sunrise - Long Distance Runaround - put prog on the map, period. No opinion here dude. |
Oh, you are guilty as charged for saying that . Why are people beating on each other's heads over why 5% should go or why 'We Have Heaven' should go? Maybe what you meant was that the true value of a record lies in its potential, not the absence of thereof?
Edited by Dayvenkirq - March 30 2012 at 18:28
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dennismoore
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Posted: March 30 2012 at 20:04 |
Dayvenkirq wrote:
dennismoore wrote:
"...smoking crack with those street hookers in that cheap hotel and thinking there was a bad track on YES - Fragile"
was one of my best lines! You gotta give me some credit for that, no? |
I give you credit for that, although I fail to see the meaning of that line.
dennismoore wrote:
Roundabout - Heart Of The Sunrise - Long Distance Runaround - put prog on the map, period. No opinion here dude. |
Oh, you are guilty as charged for saying that . Why are people beating on each other's heads over why 5% should go or why 'We Have Heaven' should go? Maybe what you meant was that the true value of a record lies in its potential, not the absence of thereof?
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The point is one must be on crack to think there is a bad track on Fragile You said: " what you meant was that the true value of a record lies in its potential, not the absence of thereof?" I think you are too smart for me. I can hardly understand that, but it sounds deep. I do think some records are foundational(just a nice way to say classic) and are much bigger and more important than the average record which may have great and some not so great tracks. So I stand up for Fragile not as a fan, but for some semblance of order to allow discourse to continue without evolving into simple chaos. Let me try it this way: For example, I truly love RUSH, if there were polls here on 2 RUSH CDs in particular... RUSH - Caress of Steel. Certainly some tracks are great some not so. We could easily have a poll on which tracks are weakest. RUSH - Hemispheres. No poll possible. That is a masterpiece, no low points to single out. So YES - Fragile. Masterpiece, no low points to argue about YES - Tormato. Some great, some not. That would be fine to discuss everybody's opinion on what song is worse, with nobody's opinion being better. Same as you can't say: Which part of the ceiling painting of the Sistene Chapel sucks? Answer: No part. Ah, so who decides what is a masterpiece? That is the problem.... I humbly take the liberty of saying that records like YES - Fragile, CTTE or ELP - BSS are masterpieces this is after these records have survived decades of critical listening & analysis. I am no expert for sure, I just pick these albums among many but I do think they fit in that category. If somebody thinks I am an idiot for saying that, than on this public forum, I expect I will hear that sooner or later.
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iamathousandapples
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 14 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 344
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Posted: March 30 2012 at 20:09 |
dennismoore wrote:
Dayvenkirq wrote:
dennismoore wrote:
"...smoking crack with those street hookers in that cheap hotel and thinking there was a bad track on YES - Fragile"
was one of my best lines! You gotta give me some credit for that, no? |
I give you credit for that, although I fail to see the meaning of that line.
dennismoore wrote:
Roundabout - Heart Of The Sunrise - Long Distance Runaround - put prog on the map, period. No opinion here dude. |
Oh, you are guilty as charged for saying that . Why are people beating on each other's heads over why 5% should go or why 'We Have Heaven' should go? Maybe what you meant was that the true value of a record lies in its potential, not the absence of thereof?
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The point is one must be on crack to think there is a bad track on Fragile
You said: " what you meant was that the true value of a record lies in its potential, not the absence of thereof?"
I think you are too smart for me. I can hardly understand that, but it sounds deep.
I do think some records are foundational(just a nice way to say classic) and are much bigger and more important than the average record which may have great and some not so great tracks. So I stand up for Fragile not as a fan, but for some semblance of order to allow discourse to continue without evolving into simple chaos.
Let me try it this way:
For example, I truly love RUSH, if there were polls here on 2 RUSH CDs in particular...
RUSH - Caress of Steel. Certainly some tracks are great some not so. We could easily have a poll on which tracks are weakest.
RUSH - Hemispheres. No poll possible. That is a masterpiece, no low points to single out.
So YES - Fragile. Masterpiece, no low points to argue about
YES - Tormato. Some great, some not. That would be fine to discuss everybody's opinion on what song is worse, with nobody's opinion being better.
Same as you can't say: Which part of the ceiling painting of the Sistene Chapel sucks? Answer: No part.
Ah, so who decides what is a masterpiece? That is the problem....
I humbly take the liberty of saying that records like YES - Fragile, CTTE or ELP - BSS are masterpieces this is after these records have survived decades of critical listening & analysis. I am no expert for sure, I just pick these albums among many but I do think they fit in that category.
If somebody thinks I am an idiot for saying that, than on this public forum, I expect I will hear that sooner or later.
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Well why not have the masterpieces as polls? That seems like the whole fun in having it, is having a bunch of different opinions of what song you like the least on it on an album you love and keeping it going. Otherwise you wind up with polls like Deloused that last a day because everyone can say "yeah, that song sucks" unanimously.
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Points: 10970
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Posted: March 30 2012 at 20:12 |
Looks like there is no way to get you out of thinking objectively, Dennis . You just can't accept other people's opinion .
Edited by Dayvenkirq - March 30 2012 at 20:15
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dennismoore
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Posted: March 30 2012 at 20:18 |
iamathousandapples wrote:
Well why not have the masterpieces as polls? That seems like the whole fun in having it, is having a bunch of different opinions of what song you like the least on it on an album you love and keeping it going. Otherwise you wind up with polls like Deloused that last a day because everyone can say "yeah, that song sucks" unanimously. |
Dear Spaceghost with funny red turbin, That is an outstanding idea! I think you have solved this mess. Which albums for a given band are to be considered a masterpiece?
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dennismoore
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Posted: March 30 2012 at 20:19 |
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iamathousandapples
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Points: 344
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Posted: March 30 2012 at 20:22 |
there's always everything on the top 100. Really though I think it comes down to what most people on the forum think, because while I think an album like DEP's Option Paralysis could contend with that definition, I know a lot of other people would disagree with that. And it's not really something we can classify due to it's subjectivity.
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Dellinger
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Joined: June 18 2009
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Posted: March 30 2012 at 20:42 |
5%. I actually like "We have Heaven".
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DisgruntledPorcupine
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Joined: January 16 2010
Location: Thunder Bay CAN
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Points: 4395
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Posted: March 30 2012 at 21:22 |
When it comes to the term "masterpiece", there is 0 objectivity involved. The only objective things are what instruments are used and info about the members of the band, length of songs, time signatures, stuff like that. Other than that, music is 0% objective.
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ghost_of_morphy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
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Posted: March 31 2012 at 10:40 |
Dellinger wrote:
5%. I actually like "We have Heaven". |
Heart of the Sunrise is the still the track I consistantly skip, but I agree that We Have Heaven is quite creative in it's own way.
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Dellinger
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Posted: April 01 2012 at 20:19 |
As a matter of fact, Heart of the Sunrise is my least favourite of the non-solo tracks, despite the fact that for many people it is the quintesential Yes track. I have grown to like it more, but there is still something that puts me off with that song. I like better the live version with ABWH... somehow vocals and drums are more emotional on that version.
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darkshade
Collaborator
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Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
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Points: 10964
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Posted: April 02 2012 at 11:58 |
***POLL CLOSED***
Five Percent For Nothing is eliminated.
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