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Neograss for Symphonic

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Windhawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Neograss for Symphonic
    Posted: April 04 2012 at 02:26
Album on Progstreaming.

Neo and Crossover teams have voted Eclectic or Symphonic for them, initial response in Eclectic is Symphonic. Incidentally, the Prog Folk team evaluated the band a couple of years ago and rejected them.
The Progressive Rock record labels project: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=85100
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Post Options Post Options   Quote AtomicCrimsonRush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2012 at 03:48
Neograss? Okay will have  a listen soon if I can pry myself away from TAAB2
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2012 at 15:49
We have searched not only this album, but also the Bluegrass:



And their New Age release




Symphonic they aren't, even their Atlantis album has a lot of New Age and Neo.

Not accepted in Symphonic, I believe the only alternative is Prog Related

Iván
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Post Options Post Options   Quote toremorten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2012 at 05:42

Just wanted to reply on this as I am composer/guitarist & mellotronist in Neograss. I find it fascinating viewing style analysis of our music. If this helps i could try to explain our progressive concepts:

- The use of mellotrons.
- Composition form-Classical influenced..Sonata form..
- Song lenght...20-30 minutes
- Odd meters
- Rock grooves -8 beat & shuffle
-Lyrics about science fiction and/or legends of lost continents..not Love lyrics..... : )
- Modal harmonies
 
All these above mentioned concepts/techniques are well known in classical and prog/symphonic music...
 
So in my head when i compose/perform I always thing progressive/Symphonic Rock.. the only difference is the instrumentation... Banjo, upright bass, acoustic guitar which is more towars American Bluegrass...
 
Tore- Morten Andreassen : )
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2012 at 06:48

I voted for a move from the neo team.

Given the artist himself has declared symphonic, I would suggest that we add asap.



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Evolver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2012 at 08:53
This is one of those issues for us.
 
In Crossover, I voted to move as they seemed far too complex for the label.  They absolutely belong on the site.
They sound symphonic to me, but perhaps with all of the different influences, eclectic may be the answer.
This group is far too progressive for a "Prog Related" tag.
I'd say if no one else wants them, send them back to Crossover for a re-vote.
Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2012 at 10:23
Originally posted by toremorten

Just wanted to reply on this as I am composer/guitarist & mellotronist in Neograss. I find it fascinating viewing style analysis of our music. If this helps i could try to explain our progressive concepts:

- The use of mellotrons.
- Composition form-Classical influenced..Sonata form..
- Song lenght...20-30 minutes
- Odd meters
- Rock grooves -8 beat & shuffle
-Lyrics about science fiction and/or legends of lost continents..not Love lyrics..... : )
- Modal harmonies
 
All these above mentioned concepts/techniques are well known in classical and prog/symphonic music...
 
So in my head when i compose/perform I always thing progressive/Symphonic Rock.. the only difference is the instrumentation... Banjo, upright bass, acoustic guitar which is more towars American Bluegrass...
 
Tore- Morten Andreassen : )

Hi Tore Morten, as head of the Symphonic team I will respectfully reply.

- The use of mellotron; The use of Mellotron is not exclusive of Prog, as a fact is used vastly in Pop,  some good examples would be Captain & Tenille, Elton John, Billy Joel, .Wang Chung, OMD,  Oasis, Sheryl Crow, etc.The instrument doesn't make a genre, the music does

- Composition form-Classical influenced..Sonata form.. It's classical influenced, but also has Bluegrass and mainstream Rock, to be honest, you can write a Rock or Pop album in Sonata form, and still won't be p´rog

- Song lenght...20-30 minutes: Common to all Prog, listen King Crimson, Magma, Mike Oldfield, Jethro Tull, etc none of them Symphonic

- Odd meters: This is common to all Prog, not only to Symphonic

- Rock grooves -8 beat & shuffle: Again, not exclusive of Symphonic or even Prog

-Lyrics about science fiction and/or legends of lost continents..not Love lyrics..... : ): Common to all Prog, not to Symphonic exclusively.

- Modal harmonies: Modal harmonies are often used in Irish and Scottish Folk, and is also used in Bluegrass

Yes, Neograss has some Symphonic passages, but also has Neo Prog, AOR, New Age and Bluegrass, so after being checked carefully by the three members of the Symphonic Team, we believe the band is not a good candidate for Symphonic, and listening to all your career, is very diverse.

We don't categorize a band by one album, but for their career, and Neograss has several albums (And EP) in several genres)

  1. Overtru Fra Yttersia: Some sort of Orchestral Nordic Folk with classical touches and New Age
  2. Future Soundscapes (Holistic Remix): Your own site describes it as " this is music for holistic meditation, so just lay down and relax for a moment." This relieves us from further comments because it's New Age clearly.
  3. Smokey Reeds the Bandit is described by CD Baby as " Country: Progressive Country", Clearly not Symphonic
  4. The Sea of Tranquility: Close to Symphonic, but there's much more happening
  5. Atlantis is described as Progressive Rock, but CD Baby recommends Ambient to people that listen this album, as a fact has a bit of everything, from New Age to Neo prog and Symphonic

Lets remember that Prog is not a synonym of Symphonic, there are several sub-genres (We have around 20 other sites have almost 100), we believe Neograss is a Prog band but not a Symphonic one, should be in Prog Archives, but not sure if Eclectic or Crossover..

Good luck

Iván








Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 04 2012 at 14:08
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2012 at 10:27
Originally posted by lazland

I voted for a move from the neo team.

Given the artist himself has declared symphonic, I would suggest that we add asap.


Lazland, we decide in this case.

Please check all their discography, I respect what the arist believes, but Smokey Reeds the Bandit is COUNTRY PROG according to their own site and CD BABY and they have other New Age releases.

I respect what Neo Prog Team does or decides, please give us the same respect, the vote was unanymous for no in tjhe Symphonic Team.

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 04 2012 at 10:30
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2012 at 11:50
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

Originally posted by lazland

I voted for a move from the neo team.

Given the artist himself has declared symphonic, I would suggest that we add asap.


Lazland, we decide in this case.

Please check all their discography, I respect what the arist believes, but Smokey Reeds the Bandit is COUNTRY PROG according to their own site and CD BABY and they have other New Age releases.

I respect what Neo Prog Team does or decides, please give us the same respect, the vote was unanymous for no in tjhe Symphonic Team.

Iván

Ivan. I have every respect for you and the symphonic team. As you are aware, I have had a couple of similar arguments on the neo team about additions, most notably Alan Reed (not added) and Edison's Children (added).

My point here is that when the artist himself/themselves describe the work as symphonic prog, it strikes me as pretty arrogant of us to then turn around and tell the person who actually wrote and performed the damned thing that in our "expert" opinion, it doesn't fit within that sub-genre. I have said it before, and I will say it again - this kind of blind adherence to supposed criteria and thinking we are above the people who actually perform the damned stuff is doing this site's credibility no good whatsoever.

I am beginning to come round to the opinion that it might be better if we get rid of the sub-genres, and leave our site as an encyclopedia of prog artists without specifying the sub-genre.

You are as aware as I am that there are artists here who have released an album which fits in perfectly to a sub-genre, only for later releases to "progress" to other forms, including, of course, non prog.

This is clearly a prog band. We all agree that they deserve to be on the site. The band themselves state that they fit within the symphonic sub genre - more than a few collaborators, BTW, agreed.

To say this is NOT a lack of respect to you and colleagues, whom I have always treated with the utmost consideration & respect.

To say this is simply bloody common sense and courtesy to the band themselves.   


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Windhawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2012 at 12:18
That's a lesson learned long ago. Symphonic progressive rock and Symphonic PA prog are two wildly different creatures that just happens to touch common ground on a few select occasions.
The Progressive Rock record labels project: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=85100
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2012 at 12:24
Originally posted by lazland

 

Ivan. I have every respect for you and the symphonic team. As you are aware, I have had a couple of similar arguments on the neo team about additions, most notably Alan Reed (not added) and Edison's Children (added).

My point here is that when the artist himself/themselves describe the work as symphonic prog, it strikes me as pretty arrogant of us to then turn around and tell the person who actually wrote and performed the damned thing that in our "expert" opinion, it doesn't fit within that sub-genre. I have said it before, and I will say it again - this kind of blind adherence to supposed criteria and thinking we are above the people who actually perform the damned stuff is doing this site's credibility no good whatsoever.

I am beginning to come round to the opinion that it might be better if we get rid of the sub-genres, and leave our site as an encyclopedia of prog artists without specifying the sub-genre.

You are as aware as I am that there are artists here who have released an album which fits in perfectly to a sub-genre, only for later releases to "progress" to other forms, including, of course, non prog.

This is clearly a prog band. We all agree that they deserve to be on the site. The band themselves state that they fit within the symphonic sub genre - more than a few collaborators, BTW, agreed.

To say this is NOT a lack of respect to you and colleagues, whom I have always treated with the utmost consideration & respect.

To say this is simply bloody common sense and courtesy to the band themselves.   

Lazland, I respect the artists but sometimes we can disagree:

  1. When I was in the Neo Prog team, a member of a band made a scandal after he was added to Neo, he wanted Symphonic or nothing, he even protested despite the 8 members o both teams voted for Neo Prog
  2. We had an artist that asked to be added to Symphonic....He was accepted by the Prog Metal Team
  3. Several times members of bands have demanded o be added to determined genres, at the end even the administrators agreed they were not remotely prog.
- Smokey Reeds the Bandit Is not a Symphonic album, they in their own site say it's a Prog-Bluegrass album
- Future Soundscape Holistic Remix Is described by their site as: "This is music for holistic meditationso just lay down and relax for a moment" This is not Symphonic, no matter who said that.

The artists have their perspective, but Prog Archives have their a band wit two Prog non Symphonic albums, can't be Symphonic, no matter who says that.

Now, I have the impression that Tore identifies prog with symphonic, probably he's not familiar with our system, tha's why I sent him a PM explain him why we decided not to include the band in Symphonic.

Now, about the respect, I don't tell any genre team  that they must add a band or artist, that's their prerogative, I never told you "You have to ad XXXX to Neo prog ASAP".....We ask the same consideration, because the call is our's.

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 04 2012 at 12:26
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2012 at 12:25
Originally posted by Windhawk

That's a lesson learned long ago. Symphonic progressive rock and Symphonic PA prog are two wildly different creatures that just happens to touch common ground on a few select occasions.

Yep.

Olav, I have expanded on this in the Collab zone, where I feel that further discussion is better placed. I would appreciate your input there.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2012 at 12:27
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

Originally posted by lazland

 

Ivan. I have every respect for you and the symphonic team. As you are aware, I have had a couple of similar arguments on the neo team about additions, most notably Alan Reed (not added) and Edison's Children (added).

My point here is that when the artist himself/themselves describe the work as symphonic prog, it strikes me as pretty arrogant of us to then turn around and tell the person who actually wrote and performed the damned thing that in our "expert" opinion, it doesn't fit within that sub-genre. I have said it before, and I will say it again - this kind of blind adherence to supposed criteria and thinking we are above the people who actually perform the damned stuff is doing this site's credibility no good whatsoever.

I am beginning to come round to the opinion that it might be better if we get rid of the sub-genres, and leave our site as an encyclopedia of prog artists without specifying the sub-genre.

You are as aware as I am that there are artists here who have released an album which fits in perfectly to a sub-genre, only for later releases to "progress" to other forms, including, of course, non prog.

This is clearly a prog band. We all agree that they deserve to be on the site. The band themselves state that they fit within the symphonic sub genre - more than a few collaborators, BTW, agreed.

To say this is NOT a lack of respect to you and colleagues, whom I have always treated with the utmost consideration & respect.

To say this is simply bloody common sense and courtesy to the band themselves.   

Lazland, I respect the artists but sometimes we can disagree:

  1. When I was in the Neo Prog team, a member of a band made a scandal after he was added to Neo, he wanted Symphonic or nothing, he even protested despite the 8 members o both teams voted for Neo Prog
  2. We had an artist that asked to be added to Symphonic....He was accepted by the Prog Metal Team
  3. Several times members of bands have demanded o be added to determined genres, at the end even the administrators agreed they were not remotely prog.
- Smokey Reeds the Bandit Is not a Symphonic album, they in their own site say it's a Prog-Bluegrass album
- Future Soundscape Holistic Remix Is described by their site as: "This is music for holistic meditationso just lay down and relax for a moment" This is not Symphonic, no matter who said that.

The artists have their perspective, but Prog Archives have their a band wit two Prog non Symphonic albums, can't be Symphonic, no matter who says that.

Now, I have the impression that Tore identifies prog with symphonic, probably he's not familiar with our system, tha's why I sent him a PM explain him why we decided not to include the band in Symphonic.

Now, about the respect, I don't tell any genre team  that they must add a band or artist, that's their prerogative, I never told you "You have to ad XXXX to Neo prog ASAP".....We ask the same consideration, because the call is our's.

Iván

Ivan. I would be grateful if this conversation be continued in the collab zone, where I have made a similar post, rather than in the open forum for all to see. I will then be happy to lose my temper with you in a bot more privacy.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Evolver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2012 at 12:29
A lot of bands describe themselves in ways that we may disagree with.  That doesn't mean we hear them the same way.  From the one Neograss album I heard, they sound like symphonic.  I'll admit that I hadn't heard any other albums from them.  But I agree with Ivan that we must entrust the teams to decide what they include.
 
Again, I would have no problem re-opening the vote in crossover based on the rejection of the teams we moved them to.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2012 at 12:38
Originally posted by Windhawk

That's a lesson learned long ago. Symphonic progressive rock and Symphonic PA prog are two wildly different creatures that just happens to touch common ground on a few select occasions.

Now, that's not accurate, we agree in most cases with other sites

As a fact the only site in which I found Neograss is Proggnosis, and it's not Symphonic by their perspective:

 NorwayNeograss
Genre-SubGenre-Style:PROGRESSIVE ROCK (Sub-Genre Not Assigned)
Artist Web Site:
If you like this artist - you might like: 



ARTIST INFORMATION:
When mellotrons meets bluegrass instruments. The new sound of acoustic prog from Norway.


In related items, CDBABY says::


Wikipedia says about them:


BTW: This is the opinion of a Crossover Team member when suggested:

Originally posted by Warthur

Neograss: Doesn't quite feel right to me. It feels like it would work better in prog folk perhaps? I think MOVE for now.



So why put pressure on us?

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 06 2012 at 00:30
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2012 at 16:33
This morning I received a very kind PM (in reply to mine) from Tore Morsen-Andreasen member of NEOGRASS

I can't post the PM without his authorization but I can summarize what he said:

1.- He agrees Eclectic is correct for the band
2.- That Smokey Reeds the Bandit  is Progressive.  with elements of folk and symphonic
3.- That Holistic EP is Krautrock

So we weren't that wrong according to him.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Mystical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2012 at 06:11
Symphonic prog I think.

"Atlantis" is a masterpiece and it would be a shame for it to be overlooked.Star
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2012 at 11:00
Originally posted by The Mystical

Symphonic prog I think.

"Atlantis" is a masterpiece and it would be a shame for it to be overlooked.Star

Hi Mystical and welcome.

I think you're right about Atlantis, it's a great album and CLOSE to Symphonic and Neo Prog

The problem is that we accept a band based in all their Prog releases, and Atlantis is not the only release of Neograss

As I said before, they have one Prog-Bluegrass album (Smokey Reeds the Bandit), and another one defined as Krautrock by a band member (New Age IMO).

So, if out of three Prog releases they only have one CLOSE to Symphonic, we can't accept them in Symphonic.

That's the reason why w moved King Crimson out of Symphonic, they have two Symphonic albums and a lot crossing diverse genres..

Thanks for your comprehension.

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 20 2012 at 11:02
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2012 at 12:05
Neograss has just been approved for Eclectic.

If anyone wants to contribute a bio (or any SC wants to do this addition), that'd be great, as I'll be gone all day (graduation for our students this evening).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2012 at 17:38
Good news Robert.

Iván
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