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Metallica in "prog related" ?

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Mutez View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 07 2012 at 13:53
Ive noticed that the two Metallica albums "Master of Puppets" and "And Justice for all" is mentioned in "Prog Related".  And i started thinking to myself "why have those 2 albums been placed into that camp?".    I mean i was a big fan of old Metallica and througout my early 20's, i knew their first 6 albums almost like the back of my hand lol.
 
The reason why is obviously because, on those 2 albums of theirs, theres a trait that exists on those 2 albums but not on the other albums.   And that trait is..............long songs that last over 8 mins.  There are 2-3 songs on each of those albums that last for over 8 mins.   This is the only "progressive rock" trait tho that exists on those Metallica albums.....lenghty songs.    You rarely get a progressive rock song lasting less than 5 mins, but "lenght" is not the be all end all of a prog rock song.
 
Prog Rock songs are longer than non prog rock songs, but.......they are structured differently aswell.   On those long metallica songs, they still have the same structure as typical metal songs.  But instead of being verse chorus verse chorus verse chorus....end of song, its just verse chorus verse chorus verse chorus verse chorus verse chorus verse chorus....end of song instead lol.    You could easily concise those songs down and nothing would be ruined from them (strictly speaking).    But you definently could not shorten and concise for example.....the Pink Floyd song Time.  If you did that you'd butcher it, you'd destroy the very thing the songs meant to be about.
 
Theres only 2 exceptions though in regards to the 8 min plus songs of Metallica's.  Orion from the puppets album, as its a lenghty instrumental that takes you on a journey,  and the song To Live is To Die from the justice for all album.   That song is not your typical verse chorus verse chorus verse chorus song, it takes you on a fair bit of a journey aswell and is not typical metal song song structured.   Also when To Live is to Die ends.....it immediatly kicks into the next song, Dyers Eve.  Those 2 songs tie in together with each other.   I have seen this done on a fair amount of progressive rock songs aswell.   For example Arena do this a few times on their album The Visitor.   Darkwater also do this with "The Play part 1" and "The Play part 2" on their album "Calling the Earth to Witness".    To Live is to Die and Dyers Eve could actually be merged together to form 1 huge song.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2012 at 14:47
All of their albums are in n"Prog Related". Because the BAND is in the category Prog Related.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CCVP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2012 at 15:04
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

All of their albums are in n"Prog Related". Because the BAND is in the category Prog Related.

Indeed, ProgArchives software makes it impossible to have albums in different cathegories.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2012 at 18:51
let's not let this turn into another debate about artist vs. album subgenres--   Metallica is in PR because several of their LPs, including the two mentioned by the OP, were progressive, particularly in the way they progressed Metal beyond the normally blues or 'swing' -oriented patterns long practiced by Zep, Sabbath, Priest, Ozzy, and even Maiden.   And they were American which itself was a development away from the Kinks-Yardbirds-Zep evolutionary path of heavy rock.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2012 at 09:06
Originally posted by Mutez Mutez wrote:

On those long metallica songs, they still have the same structure as typical metal songs.  But instead of being verse chorus verse chorus verse chorus....end of song, its just verse chorus verse chorus verse chorus verse chorus verse chorus verse chorus....end of song instead lol.    You could easily concise those songs down and nothing would be ruined from them (strictly speaking).   


That is not true for the two albums you mentioned, Master of Puppets and And Justice for All.  It is also not true for the title track of Ride The Lightning.  You could probably argue that Rainbow and Iron Maiden have used that kind of structure, but then they are in prog related as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2012 at 09:36
Prog Related isn't Prog.
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Like lots of things are done with uranium.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sagichim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2012 at 11:44
^it's prog related!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote earlyprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2012 at 11:52
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Prog Related isn't Prog.
 
Careful now.
 
Overall / in average, Metallica is obviously not prog, but periodically / section-wise they are. Consequently, they are Prog-Related (deliberatately leaving out other criteria).
 
("On average" is subjective, of course.)


Edited by earlyprog - April 14 2012 at 11:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2012 at 11:56
Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Prog Related isn't Prog.
 
Careful now.
 
Overall / in average, Metallica is obviously not prog, but periodically / section-wise they are. Consequently, they are Prog-Related (deliberatately leaving out other criteria).

But still a band classified as Prog Related here.....are not considered prog. Which is Dean's point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote earlyprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2012 at 12:07
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Prog Related isn't Prog.
 
Careful now.
 
Overall / in average, Metallica is obviously not prog, but periodically / section-wise they are. Consequently, they are Prog-Related (deliberatately leaving out other criteria).

But still a band classified as Prog Related here.....are not considered prog. Which is Dean's point.
 
Grrrrrrrrr! (LOL)
 
So Deans's point = PA's point? Embarrassed.......LOL
 
Hug (I'm a hugger. Lighten up.Handshake)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2012 at 12:50
Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Prog Related isn't Prog.
 
Careful now.
 
Overall / in average, Metallica is obviously not prog, but periodically / section-wise they are. Consequently, they are Prog-Related (deliberatately leaving out other criteria).

But still a band classified as Prog Related here.....are not considered prog. Which is Dean's point.
 
Grrrrrrrrr! (LOL)
 
So Deans's point = PA's point? Embarrassed.......LOL
 
Hug (I'm a hugger. Lighten up.Handshake)

I'm light. i wasn't trying to be ratty with you. And maybe I shouldn't speak for Dean. I may be wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2012 at 13:13
Hhmm compared to a lot of things, I personally feel this is a pretty good stab at "prog":

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GoldenGod2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2012 at 14:45
And Justice For All is proggy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mutez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2012 at 06:44
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Hhmm compared to a lot of things, I personally feel this is a pretty good stab at "prog":

 
I did actually say in my OP that the two Metallica songs that i thought did decently emulate the progressive rock song structure, were Orion and To Live is to Die, but glad you agree with me on something tho lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horizons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2012 at 06:58
I don't hear anything proggy about that song. It slows down and is over 6 minutes. Ermm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crimson87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2012 at 11:52
Metallica were a band that helped develop progressive metal a lot. Their first 4 albums are pivotal in the genre. They weren't prog in style but were real progressive artists in the genre.
 
I don't wanna start the old prog vs progressive debate but let me show you an example:
 
And Justice for all (progressive metal) vs SDOIT (prog metal)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2012 at 12:25
Would people at least try to read the stupid bio in Metallica's PA page?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Doctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2012 at 12:38
I found quite a few proggy moments on Metallica's 2nd, 3rd and 4th albums.  And on those albums, I challenge the OP to name one song that has 6 verses and 6 choruses.  I certainly don't remember any and I'm fairly well-versed in those three albums.  Oh, and just to let the OP know, PA and my collection are full of prog that has only  4-5 minute long songs.  So I doubt only song length was taken into account when deciding on Metallica for related.  Some of their rhythmic and harmonic structures are quite complex in parts.  And, I'm sure they influenced a lot of the prog-metal that is out there today (one of the criteria for related I believe).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote charles_ryder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2014 at 10:38
And Justice For All is a progressive metal album. More progressive than many of Dream Theater albums for example. And the three first albums are prog related. IMO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2014 at 15:17
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Prog Related isn't Prog.
 
Careful now.
 
Overall / in average, Metallica is obviously not prog, but periodically / section-wise they are. Consequently, they are Prog-Related (deliberatately leaving out other criteria).

But still a band classified as Prog Related here.....are not considered prog. Which is Dean's point.
So....why are they , and other prog related bands, on Prog Rock Archives then if they aren't 'prog'...?
I have always found that to be a bit odd.
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