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Topic ClosedMusicianship: Alan White

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Jim Garten View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2012 at 07:11
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

Squire was the most prone to being moody/grumpy


Not surprising, really - he's a terrible poker player & always loses the "Who's going to wear the worst outfit onstage tonight" game:


"Ooh, Wakeman, you bugger - I thought I had you with a pair of kings!"

Aaaanyway,

Alan White, though, is a superbly powerful drummer, but one with a great deal of finesse, too; sadly, I've never seen the man play live, but on the live albums (Yessongs, especially) his work is wonderful (Heart Of The Sunrise, anyone?)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2012 at 08:10
LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2012 at 08:50
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

and that Squire was the most prone to being moody/grumpy.  I guess he had the most to lose out there.

and I thought Steve Howe was the grumpy one!!! 
He is my hero though, and I really want to shake his hand someday!!!! (that should piss him off! ;))


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2012 at 09:07
Mind you, that doesn't mean he (Squire) was grumpy all the time.  I don't want to paint him as some kind of ogre. 

As for Howe, my friend characterized him more as quiet and private.  He won't fly and has a strict diet, so he travels separately from the rest of the band.

edit: it just occurred to me -- how do you tour the world and cross oceans if you don't fly in planes?  I may have to double check my source there.  Don't quote me on this, I'm just going by memory from what was told to me in a couple of sentences.


Edited by HolyMoly - April 11 2012 at 09:13
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2012 at 09:47
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

Mind you, that doesn't mean he (Squire) was grumpy all the time.  I don't want to paint him as some kind of ogre. 

As for Howe, my friend characterized him more as quiet and private.  He won't fly and has a strict diet, so he travels separately from the rest of the band.

edit: it just occurred to me -- how do you tour the world and cross oceans if you don't fly in planes?  I may have to double check my source there.  Don't quote me on this, I'm just going by memory from what was told to me in a couple of sentences.

I remember him having an old Volvo station car for sale on his website, which he used to tour though the us, so that makes sense.. he probably just likes to fly less
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2012 at 09:52
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Horizons Horizons wrote:

I've never liked him for some reason, his Relayer stuff is good though. I just thought Bruford made the band technically flawless. 




No, Tales from Topographic Oceans made them that.
 
I don't think that Tales would have been as good with Bruford as it was with Alan. I really don't.
 
While Bill is good in his own way, and has done some magnificent things and no one here will ever disagree or say otherwise about his background, for my ears, he is way too "technical" and not loose enough to do something like Tales as Alan did ... I do think that the more rock oriented drumming was better for Tales than the metronomic and other style that Bill brought to the table.
 
Bill, I think, was more interested in trying different things ... but I'm not sure he felt that Tales was going anywhere ...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2012 at 10:52
Alan was a good drummer, though since the 90's I've not heard anything that made me think he was particularly good or special.  Just a standard, no frills drummer who plays everything WAY too slow.  On Relayer, he was incredible.  I actually think his drumming was great on Tales too, though that album required more mellowness than Relayer and I don't think he really got to display his talent fully (though restraint is part of being a great musician, and he certainly showed us that on Tales).

I just remember listening to the first Keys to Ascension and being constantly disappointed by how he had dumbed down most of the drum parts.  It's fine if on new material the band and he decide that a song needs toned down and basic drums.......that is not a bad thing.  But on that classic stuff, you can't tone them down and have the songs still elicit the same feel, it just doesn't work.  The slow tempos just ruin it for me when I hear them these days.

Still though, the guy CAN play very well and is at the very least a competent and professional drummer.  Sounds like a really nice guy, too. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2012 at 12:16
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

And, take it from me, he's a damn nice fellow to boot!  Of all the Yes & Crimson guys I've met, he was  by far the most openly friendly and cheerful!   The type of fellow you'd go drinking with if you could!  (Squire would be the one most likely to try to stick you with the bar tab).

A friend of mine was Yes's guitar tech on their tour last summer, and he also said that Alan White was very cool, and that Squire was the most prone to being moody/grumpy.  I guess he had the most to lose out there.

Interesting!  Was your friend Hugh Manson or one of his apprentices?  That's a Manson bass in my mitts in my avatar!  

That's how I got after-show passes at the 35th Anniversary Show in Chicago (drop-deat amazing concert too!).  Squire was a bit of a grumpy dick, didn't like him one bit....so much for heroes of our past!!   Howe was like a bizarre alien....Wakeman was very cheerful in a politician/TV personality sort of way, loved the guy!   Jon Anderson was as sweet and bubbly as you could imagine.  

White was clearly attracted by the "red-haired bait" (my lovely wife Ginny) and he was just a lovely, nice chap!  Very sincere & appreciative of our praise. 

In terms of music, I got over the switch from Broof to White pretty easily with TFTO, and then there was no looking back with Relayer.  As others have noted, he was a solid contributor and true collaborator on GFTO, Tormato and so forth.  

If age is catching up to him and he's missing a lick, that happens.  I have arthritis that is slowing me down a lick or two.  All of Yes need to start cultivating apprentices IMHO, Ollie Wakeman gave me hope this band would progress to the future.  As it is now, when Squire fails, I think it's done.  

Bad White is better than no White at all!  


Edited by cstack3 - April 11 2012 at 12:17
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2012 at 12:59
He is one of those musicians who haven't aged particularly well, and recent clips I have seen of Yes have him completely lost in the mix, and neither did I find his work on the new album good at all.

However, in his day, he was right up there with the best of them. As has been said before, his work on TFTO, Relayer, and latter day albums such as  The Ladder & Magnification were awesome.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2012 at 13:46
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

And, take it from me, he's a damn nice fellow to boot!  Of all the Yes & Crimson guys I've met, he was  by far the most openly friendly and cheerful!   The type of fellow you'd go drinking with if you could!  (Squire would be the one most likely to try to stick you with the bar tab).

A friend of mine was Yes's guitar tech on their tour last summer, and he also said that Alan White was very cool, and that Squire was the most prone to being moody/grumpy.  I guess he had the most to lose out there.

Interesting!  Was your friend Hugh Manson or one of his apprentices?  That's a Manson bass in my mitts in my avatar!  


That is a very nice looking specimen on your lap there. Thumbs Up

No, my friend who worked for them was a guy named Andre who's done a few road manager/guitar tech jobs for Adrian Belew, Al di Meola, Yes, and (currently) Greg Lake.  He's a great guitarist in his own right, and leads his own Zappa tribute band that's pretty well known.  I'm fortunate to know a guy with that kind of inside perspective on some pretty big names.


Edited by HolyMoly - April 11 2012 at 13:47
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2012 at 15:10
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

He is one of those musicians who haven't aged particularly well, and recent clips I have seen of Yes have him completely lost in the mix, and neither did I find his work on the new album good at all.

However, in his day, he was right up there with the best of them. As has been said before, his work on TFTO, Relayer, and latter day albums such as  The Ladder & Magnification were awesome.

Thank you, Steve, that was a very intelligent & insightful post!  

Drummers seem to go first....Phil Collins and Bill Bruford have both retired, while many of their former bandmates slog on.    

I only play a tiny bit of the drum, it's not as easy as guitar/bass for me!  Truly excellent drummers like White are indeed rare.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2012 at 19:38
...meanwhile, Alan is keeping quite busy it appears!! 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2012 at 14:50
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

...meanwhile, Alan is keeping quite busy it appears!! 

 
In Seattle?
 
I'm wanting to see this ... and nice to see someone expanding this ... which I really think is what Chris and the other folks need to do and stop being irrelevant and repetitive.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2012 at 15:53
His studio work is great, but like another poster pointed out, his recent live performances are lacking. He was the weakest link when I saw them 1 year ago...

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

In Seattle?

Well he lives in Newcastle WA so that is not so suprising. He also played at Hempfest a couple years back.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2012 at 16:38
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Hitler clearly preferred Broof to White (1:39 onwards)





Hahahahah! Old is always good
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2012 at 18:03
I've said this before, but I always thought him to be a little more subtle than Bill and that made him a better fit for Yes.  I didn't fully appreciate him until the Levin Torn White album last year where in a trio instrumental format he really does get the opportunity to stand out.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2012 at 20:48
Sorry to break up the love-fest but I find Alan White to be the most vanilla drummer I've ever heard.  I saw him with Yes back in the 70's and thought they replaced Bruford with a drum machine that had about 4k of memory.  Saw him about two years ago with one of the Yes retread bands and his plainess made my skin crawl.  I'm not saying he's a bad guy but what drop down from Bruford.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2012 at 00:08
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

I don't think that Tales would have been as good with Bruford as it was with Alan. I really don't.
 
While Bill is good in his own way, and has done some magnificent things and no one here will ever disagree or say otherwise about his background, for my ears, he is way too "technical" and not loose enough to do something like Tales as Alan did ... I do think that the more rock oriented drumming was better for Tales than the metronomic and other style that Bill brought to the table.
 
Bill, I think, was more interested in trying different things ... but I'm not sure he felt that Tales was going anywhere ...
 
Bruford?  "Metronomic?"  "Not loose?"  Have you heard any of his work with King Crimson?  Bill was very jazz-oriented, and focused a lot on feel and playing off-beat.  His style was more free-flowing than White's.  I don't really have an opinion on would have been better for TfTO, but I don't think that "metronomic" describes Bruford's style at all.
 
Anyway, I don't know a lot of Yes' later work but I think White's work on Relayer was brilliantly agressive and I love the emotion he puts into his playing (just watch the version of "And You and I" from the Live in Montreaux DVD).
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