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Textbook 
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 Topic: The Fascinating Contradictions Of The Beastie Boys
Posted: April 12 2012 at 19:48 |
Bear with me a second. I was considering doing a full-on blogumentary of The Beastie Boys (don't know if I actually will) because while they are popular and people know who they are, I don't think people fully appreciate their significance or how bizarre and interesting their story is. They were a hardcore punk band who became the biggest hip-hop act in America and subsequently a legitimately important force in funk and fusion. Everyone agrees they're bad lyricists yet they're one of the most critically acclaimed rap acts there is. They're three white Jewish guys who became an important force for Buddhism and arguably got the ball rolling on the whole Tibet issue. They went from the political insensitivity of wanting to call their debut album Don't Be A F a g g o t to becoming big time activists, donating to women's causes and protesting wars. They're still the only group I've ever heard attempt funk klezmer. They've worked with everyone from Lee Scratch Perry to Orlando f**king Bloom. They're in a genre where a lot of people don't play instruments but not only do they play, Adam "MCA" Yauch is one of the most overlooked bassists of all time. (Mike D hardly sucks on the drums either.) They're simultaneously a million selling pop act and a beard stroking muso's choice. They began as fakes and pretenders but have since gone on to represent hip-hop more authentically than a lot of African-American artists. And they're about the only act in hip-hop history that gets away with looking like this:  I could go on but I think the point is made. The plethora of contradictions makes them a fascinating act and if there isn't a good book on them, there should be soon.
Edited by Textbook - April 13 2012 at 07:49
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npjnpj
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Posted: April 13 2012 at 03:11 |
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Surely there must be a site somewhere that appreciates this kind of **** *** ***** ***** more than a prog site like this?
It's like going to a classical music appreciation site and recommending Brittney and Kate Perry, or recommending the historic value of The Wombles to the world of thrash metal.
Although I generally appreciate your contributions on this site, when it comes to hip-hop the second word is 'off''. No offence.
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Textbook
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Posted: April 13 2012 at 05:16 |
npjnpj: I don't think anybody here takes someone who judges music they haven't heard particularly seriously. Also, your complete failure to address anything I said (to make your point valid, you would have to argue that the juxtapositions I attributed to the Beastie Boys are mundane or worthless, which you didn't do and almost certainly aren't going to) shows your post is just a mindless, knee-jerk reaction to the term hip-hop, as it's a core part of your self worth that you proclaim every music form you don't understand or appreciate as trash in order to convince yourself that your ignorance and inability to address this ignorance is a strength. Additionally, genre-rejection is the absolute antithesis of the prog mindset so why on earth are you on this forum? I'm a white middle class guy who finds that one of the best ways to expand my mind is to study art forms alien to my surroundings. This is how I got so seriously into hip-hop and it has opened my head to all kinds of things. You want to sit in your little vacumn sealed world knowing what you like and liking what you know, go ahead, but please please please don't affect superiority because I'll tell you now, your attitude is inferior and that is a fact. Closing your mind off does not lead to richer understanding and more valid opinions. I believe a rare but well deserved "f**k you" has been earned and I declare you officially owned, how you like me now. The moral of this story is not to mess with a thread started by a former battle rapper. Anyway, for people who read without making snap judgements and who might be interested in exploring unfamiliar music, beginning across Check Your Head, Ill Communication and Hello Nasty, the B-Boys did actually start to become progressive, at least by hip-hop standards with the introduction of dub, funk, klezmer, Miles Davis references, traditional Buddhist music, psychedelica, electronica, singer-songwriter, chill-out, jazz etc. Songs like Shambala, Something's Gotta Give, I Don't Know and Song For The Man were hugely shocking coming from a band that made its name with Fight For Your Right. And Futterman's Rule is still one of my favourite funk instrumentals. Gotta check Yauch's bass on that track, pity I can't find it on Youtube. Futterman's Rule, look for that. Their second album Paul's Boutique is also generally agreed to have seriously advanced the art of sampling and is still regarded by some as the manual on how to sample.
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npjnpj
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Posted: April 13 2012 at 05:32 |
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Textbook
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Posted: April 13 2012 at 05:44 |
Even if you were trolling me, I enjoyed unloading my clip there so I've had fun either way ;)
Edited by Textbook - April 13 2012 at 05:51
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Snow Dog
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Posted: April 13 2012 at 05:59 |
 npjnpj wrote:
Surely there must be a site somewhere that appreciates this kind of **** *** ***** ***** more than a prog site like this?
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You can't say this about The Beastie Boys. They are f**king legendary. Mind you...I don't knbow what you ***** ***** *** said! 
I've seen some dross discussed in these general discussions so I have no problem with a Beastie Boys thread. Why exclude them above say.......Ah - Ha?
Edited by Snow Dog - April 13 2012 at 06:02
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npjnpj
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Posted: April 13 2012 at 06:25 |
I don't
think anybody here takes someone who judges music they haven't heard
particularly seriously. -> true, but nowadays how can anyone
avoid hearing it?
Also, your complete failure to address anything I said shows your post is just
a mindless, knee-jerk reaction to the term hip-hop -> Also true, although I
object to the term 'mindless'.
to make your point valid, you would have to argue that the juxtapositions I
attributed to the Beastie Boys are mundane or worthless, which you didn't do
and almost certainly aren't going to -> probably true, but I'd have to
look up the word 'juxtapositions' but can't be bothered.
as it's a core part of your self worth that you proclaim every music form you
don't understand or appreciate as trash in order to convince yourself that your
ignorance and inability to address this ignorance is a strength -> pure assumption.
Although it's true that I proclaim hip-hop (and rap) to be trash, there are a
lot of music forms I neither understand or appreciate but would never label as
trash because I recognize their cultural and/or artistic value. This does not
apply here though.
Additionally, genre-rejection is the absolute antithesis of the prog mindset so
why on earth are you on this forum? -> Untrue, I think you'll find that many
possessing the 'prog mindset' reject some genre or another. According to your
wording having a 'prog mindset' would ultimately mean embracing any and every
genre in existence, even tripe like hip-hop, just to mention a completely
unrelated example.
I believe a rare but well deserved "f**k you" has been earned and I
declare you officially owned, how you like me now. -> Yowsa!
Come on now, Textbook, we've had this discussion before. We agree to disagree.
But your repeated efforts to get hip-hop and rap onto this prog site is a bit
jarring, you have to admit. Anyway, I wouldn't usually do this, but
you're just such an easy target, 'cause face it: you ju' not COOOOl enough, man. Just having a bit of fun 'cause I'm bored.
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Textbook
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Posted: April 13 2012 at 06:29 |
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I mean the other day someone started a Coldplay thread and I piled into them because I think Coldplay are horrendous. But I never said "You are not allowed to talk about Coldplay on this forum." The guy wanted to know how people felt about Coldplay, I feel negatively about them, I expressed that and more importantly, explained why and offered alternative music I felt was similar but superior, in that case Elbow. The problem isn't you disagreeing with me npjnpj, it's you doing it like a clown.
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Textbook
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Posted: April 13 2012 at 06:33 |
npjnpj wrote:
probably true, but I'd have to
look up the word 'juxtapositions' but can't be bothered.
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Oh my god. I use a word you don't know, your reaction is to not look it up, but just march over it in arrogance and complacency. I talk about music you don't know, you write it off because to acknowledge that it might have value you don't appreciate is too much for your fragile ego. If I use a word you don't know, same deal because if you don't know it, it's not worth knowing, right? What a sad, backwards little mind you must have. If you're not playing a character to incite me, and I don't think you are, then you're not very bright. I suggest you not engage me further as we're not in the same weight class. Just being honest.
Edited by Textbook - April 13 2012 at 06:34
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Textbook
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Posted: April 13 2012 at 06:46 |
And ANOTHER THING, NO, prog does not necessitate the rejection of any genre. Ooh but prog musicians reject pop elements right? Um, no, meet crossover prog. YOU necessitate the rejection of genres because you need to exclude to feel good probably because you yourself get excluded for acting like a dick a la this thread and f**k it, I'm going to battle you, this is straight off the top of my head: I understand rap, I heard it, I know it It's the words of poets, you're absurd you show it You jump to conclusions, you chump, you're confusin' Your snobbish delusions with the music I'm usin' To give my life fusion To keep my mind movin' to new places, new faces Mixing the races, in rap I find traces Of shared mental spaces, of hope and despair Desire and fear On the radio you hear Rap that's shallow and boring But Nickleback has 'em snoring It's all commercial, rap's not the exception This a self deception to give you a perception that your taste is perfection Rap helps me to manage my mind and my language It's speed and it's skill It's dope and it's ill New idioms fill, my thoughts and my mind I feel like I was blind, all the new ways I find To write and to rhyme, to string words together In ways witty and clever, prosaic? Never So go to a cypher, see if you survive for Five seconds I reckon that's all you can strive for Words you must study or you'll end up bloody Battered and bruised as my bars beat your body I know my nouns and my adjectives, this you can quote I may be dope but you are a dope Come at me anytime npjnpj.
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Snow Dog
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Posted: April 13 2012 at 06:58 |
There was a young teacher from Aus Who argued and argued because His message of rap, of hip hop n' all that Made us run back to our Prog.
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Dean
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Posted: April 13 2012 at 06:59 |
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The problem here is the inital premis is only of significance to you. Whether what you say is true or a crock is of little importance to the vast majority here (I was going to say "anyone" but I think there are perhaps one or two who may agree with you up to a point), so being agressive about it isn't going to enlighten anyone anytime soon.
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What?
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Textbook
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Posted: April 13 2012 at 07:05 |
It's so interesting that you suggest I should keep my musical opinions to myself because they're not the accepted norm on the forum. Progressive this is Dean, Dean this is progressive. Now is this a progressive forum or a let's-all-pretend-to-be-openminded-while-actually-being-totally-straitjacketed-in-our-tastes forum? You don't have to like the Beastie Boys. But you do have to read my initial post here and respond to the content of it, rather than tell me it's inadvisable to voice opinions others might not share, at least if you want to have a conversation in this thread rather than just make yourself feel clever.
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npjnpj
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Posted: April 13 2012 at 07:08 |
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Snow Dog
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Posted: April 13 2012 at 07:12 |
A member from Germany was cool He trolled a thread like a fool After being beat down, He said like a clown "What can I say, I'm a tool"
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npjnpj
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Posted: April 13 2012 at 07:16 |
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I quite like that!
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catfood03
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Posted: April 13 2012 at 07:22 |
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This IS the "General Music Discussions" forum, is it not? A Beastie Boy discussion is quite welcome here.
Nobody blasted me for a Prince thread I started here a few weeks ago... no one replied either.
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Textbook
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Posted: April 13 2012 at 07:22 |
There was a poster named Snow Dog Who not only dabbled in prog But limerick rap Which was lyrical crap And his grandma had sex with a frog
And he once pinched a cop on his knob
And he sang like a sodomised hog
Which stank worse than a Scottish pub's bog I knew I'd get it.
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npjnpj
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Posted: April 13 2012 at 07:23 |
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Pure class.
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Textbook
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Posted: April 13 2012 at 07:24 |
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Catfood: Yeah I think it's actually quite depressing that on a "progressive" forum, people here not only don't go outside their music comfort zones but PROUDLY ADVERTISE IT. What is up with that? I've said before that I think quite a few people here are posers and actually very, very, conservative about music.
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The Fascinating Contradictions Of The Beastie Boys
