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What's The Problem With Polygamy?

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JJLehto View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What's The Problem With Polygamy?
    Posted: April 16 2012 at 15:24
I'm fine with it. As it's been said, who the hell cares? I would not enter into a polygamous relationship (though not for religious/moral reasons) but if you wanted to fine.



Originally posted by CPicard

The main problem with polygamy is that men have only one penis.




Well, not a problem just increased difficulty.

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CPicard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CPicard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 15:25
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521

Originally posted by CPicard



No, they don't.

At least, not according to my book.


You should add an appendix.


Whaaat? You f**k women in the appendixes??? THAT'S THE SICKEST AND MOST DISGUSTING THING I EVER READ!!! DeadDeadDeadDeadDead
Excuse me, sir, do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Neptune, god of the Sea?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 15:28
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521

Originally posted by Gerinski

While I'm all in for freedom rights, Henry's observation was very valid. The key point is that the usual justification goes something like Slarti said: "As long as it's between willing and consenting adults, fine".
 
The problem is that in our materialistic society "consenting" can become a tricky concept. It's like the hardest porn around, for sure there may be a few true masochists who enjoy getting seriously abused, but most of the women taking part do it just to earn some money. Those women (or men, but undeniably mostly women) are ready to take humilliation and pain for a few bucks. Should it be so?
 
It could be a long debate but the point is, when you leave everything open to just "adult consent", depraved people with money can take advantage from poor and hungry people up to points where most of us would agree it's morally incorrect.


There's nothing tricky about the concept. If people agree to an act for money, that's still consent. The same criticism you offer could be placed upon monogamous marriages. How do we know the man/woman consents to that? It's nonsense. 

Offering someone money to humiliate themselves forces nothing upon the person. If they value the money, then they can agree to it.

You interestingly only seem concerned about one side in this. What about the people being abused by being banned from a group marriage? I think a much more cogent argument than the one you provided should be produced before banning an action.
 
I was not meaning to ban anybody from group marriage, I'm perfectly supprting it for people desiring it, I was just warning about potential dangers of the expression "consent". Yes I agree consent is consent, even if it is driven by hunger, but I have some trouble accepting hunger-driven consent as true consent in the sense we are accustomed to in a hungry-less environment. Extrapolations of the subject can get scary.
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 15:34
Exploitation itself has trouble.

 Something done under starving conditions would very much be considered a contract entered into under duress. The law handles that already. I get the warning though. It is pertinent to all situations.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Textbook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 15:53
Equality: Though it was probably facetious, the "a man only has one penis" conversation seemed to be targeting the problematic nature of group sexual relationships.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote VanderGraafKommandöh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 15:59
Originally posted by Textbook

Yeah romantic comedies would really fall apart.
 
"I can't choose between this guy and this guy. Oh the drama, the tension. Oh what the hell, they're both pretty cool, let's all just live together."
 
It would probably kill the genre off entirely.
 
 
You know, this really isn't an argument against legalising polygamy.


It'd star Charlie Sheen, obviously. Wink


Edited by VanderGraafKommandöh - April 16 2012 at 15:59
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Textbook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 16:01
There probably is a great Hollywood style romantic comedy to be made about people attempting polygamy, but the cheesy studios wouldn't have the balls to do it for fear of "moral outrage".
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 16:09
Originally posted by Textbook

Equality: Though it was probably facetious, the "a man only has one penis" conversation seemed to be targeting the problematic nature of group sexual relationships.


I've seen a lot of porns where the guy gets over the obstacle of having only one penis and ten women.

Anyway, the entire question mocks the idea of polygamy. Polygamy doesn't mean one man and a bunch of women. Polygamy isn't an orgy. All we're talking about is the expression of a romantic love among more than two people. That can include a plethora of sexual arrangements.

All sexual relationships breed problems. A monogamous one does the same. The nature of the relationship itself can lead to cheating. I think it's just silly to say that every person who falls in love will fall in love with exactly one person. It's just as flawed as saying that when someone falls in love it will be with someone of their own skin color, own nationality, own religion, own sex. It's antiquated and a fairy-tale romantic perversion of the concept.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CPicard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 16:10
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521


Anyway, the entire question mocks the idea of polygamy. Polygamy doesn't mean one man and a bunch of women. Polygamy isn't an orgy.


Dream crusher. Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Quote someone_else Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 16:34
Originally posted by Guldbamsen

In Christianity there is not really anything stopping you doing this. A lot of people from the bible did have more than one wife - and furthermore without getting nailed by the big guy up on the hill for it. The bible doesn't state that you can't have any more than one spouse if I am not mistaken. You can have as many spouses as you want to really - and by you I really mean the masculine part of the equationWink
 
These verses (Genesis 2:21-24) state well enough God's intention concerning mono-/polygamy:
 
21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
 
In these verses I read that from day one (aka day six), the Lord God intended a 1:1 marital relationship between a man and a woman. Verse 24 states that a man shall cleave unto his wife, not his wives.
 
In 1 Corinthians 7:2, Paul states:
 
Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
 
In this passage, no plurals are used either.
 
Finally a personal note: I am a dedicated monogamist. Approve
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RoyFairbank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 16:45
This thread has gotten gross. I guess I am capable of imagining some similar things when the moment strikes, but "three orifices" is such a disgusting thing to say. Polygamy is wrong and sexist. Throughout history it has been rich men taking advantage of poor women.

The kind of sexual stuff going into it is a tad perverted as well. That's why Zeus gave us two hands and erotic paintings/photographs. You can pretend your in any relationship you want. No reason real girls should suffer those fantasies or have them codified into binding arrangements.

Some good songs on the topic is Anything She Does, by Genesis, and Pictures of Lilly by The Who.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 16:57
Originally posted by RoyFairbank

This thread has gotten gross. I guess I am capable of imagining some similar things when the moment strikes, but "three orifices" is such a disgusting thing to say. Polygamy is wrong and sexist. Throughout history it has been rich men taking advantage of poor women.

The kind of sexual stuff going into it is a tad perverted as well. That's why Zeus gave us two hands and erotic paintings/photographs. You can pretend your in any relationship you want. No reason real girls should suffer those fantasies or have them codified into binding arrangements.

Some good songs on the topic is Anything She Does, by Genesis, and Pictures of Lilly by The Who.


You're disgusted by the fact that women have three orifices? That's a bit strange.

Your opinion of Polygamy is wrong and sexist. You obviously assume polygamy means male dominance or female outnumbering of male. That's wrong. Your throughout history point provides nothing to the argument. You make a case against abusive polygamist marriages. Throughout history, men have been taking advantage of women in monogamous marriages. It's nonsense to say this invalidates the act.

The kind of sexual stuff in a polygamist marriage could be much more mundane than in a monogamous one.

There's no suffering or codification. It would be that these women want to be in a relationship and want to be doing certain sexual acts (again though there might be nothing out of the ordinary with the sexual acts).

This is insane to me. You could have a woman who loves two men. She thinks she loves Mr. A more and marries him. After ten years of marriage she says, I think I've made a mistake. She gets a divorce to marry Mr. B now. Society wouldn't have a problem with this. How much different is it than being married to both though? How much trouble could be avoided potentially with a polygamist relationship? I don't know the answer to the later, but it's not crazy to say the answer could be some.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 17:03
Originally posted by Textbook

Equality: Though it was probably facetious, the "a man only has one penis" conversation seemed to be targeting the problematic nature of group sexual relationships.


Oh dear...we are getting into shady territory now.
Erm, if you peruse the internet I think you can find video evidence that there are ways to make this work.

Also a total guess here:
I don't forsee a polygamous relationship being group sex. It could be a "one at a time" thing or alternating days?
OK OK I wanna say this is getting kind of silly, but I am serious about that (since the point was semi brought up)


The other issue is the classic one: choice.
If it was made illegal, would everyone start getting into polygamy?
No, of course not. It's funny because this issue really does affect few people, yet I bet many many would want it illegal.
Hate to say it, but it's pretty much an issue of forcing your views upon society.
Sure, it's justified in the Bible but uh...well that doesn't allow the right to force your value on others.




Edited by JJLehto - April 16 2012 at 17:07
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 17:12
^Brian, there's no reason to even theorize what kind of sexual arrangements may be made. It's superfluous. One need only point out for the justification case that it need not take form X when people use form X as an argument against polygamy.

One does not need to do so for monogamy. A variety of sexual relations, including allowance of extra-marital sexual relations, occur in monogamous marriage. None of this affects the argument or would even cross the minds of most since their views of monogamy and polygamy have nothing to do with reality or the meanings of the arrangements and instead are only guided by personal and cultural stereotypes.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 17:15
You're right, but what can I say? Had to take the opportunity I guess. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Alitare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 17:20
Yeah, folks have threesomes and orgies and mass rapes and brutal BDSM and multiple-partner affairs and swingers' clubs and crazy fetishes, all within the strict confines of a monogamous society. And even if they didn't, 99.9% of all monogamous individuals would daydream about it.

When you look at it, we're really a 'monogamous in name' package deal. We get to have our cake and eat it, too (with a heap of cream on top).
He gave her his town house and his racing horses. Each meal she ate was a dozen courses. She had a million dollars worth of nickels and dimes. She sat around and counted them all a million times.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 17:30
^Some of us have significant others than only let us have our cake unfortunately.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 17:35
Originally posted by JJLehto

You're right, but what can I say? Had to take the opportunity I guess. 


Sure. Just pointing it out for your own sanity.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Alitare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 18:00
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521

^Some of us have significant others than only let us have our cake unfortunately.

And we all know you're dreaming of eating it.
He gave her his town house and his racing horses. Each meal she ate was a dozen courses. She had a million dollars worth of nickels and dimes. She sat around and counted them all a million times.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 18:06
Originally posted by Alitare

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521

^Some of us have significant others than only let us have our cake unfortunately.

And we all know you're dreaming of eating it.


Since she occaisonally reads what I post, of course not.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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