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Gary Green and Malcom Mortimore, try expl prog

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Icarium View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 19 2012 at 14:26
just wanted to point this YouTube video, to show two members of Gentle Giant explain what they think of the lable prog which i would say is interesting



and Gary Green gets abit upset about the prog lable put on the prog bands Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2012 at 22:21
are their anyone who find this interesting 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yanch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2012 at 06:19
Thanks for posting Aginor. Very interesting indeed. I've always been a huge GG fan and was lucky enough to see them twice. Gary's comment about the musicians not worrying about labels, that they are something writers and fans seem to need is right on the mark. Those playing the music usually don't care what it gets called, their making music they enjoy. Society for some reason needs to label things. Some times I think it's just laziness or ignorance. Why not, as they say just call it Gentle Giant music or Zappa music. No matter, it's nice to hear these 2 talk about it.

I was also really impressed to learn that GG didn't write the music down, it was done by ear and memory! That shows just what amazing musicians they were.

Thanks again! Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2012 at 06:22
yeah that stunned me also, that they remember all the things and the academy music has to write it down and play it on sheets, i would live to be a fly on the wall when the academic music students discussing the rock music of Gentle Giant
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2012 at 07:29
Originally posted by yanch yanch wrote:

Thanks for posting Aginor. Very interesting indeed. I've always been a huge GG fan and was lucky enough to see them twice. Gary's comment about the musicians not worrying about labels, that they are something writers and fans seem to need is right on the mark. Those playing the music usually don't care what it gets called, their making music they enjoy.
...
 
Thank you ... I say that more times than I should in places like this, and it is the same thing with the "progressive" label. We can use it to help discern a period of history (like all others) but it really should be about a lot more than just a couple of weird musical ideas ... because most people don't do that because it is "prog" or whatever ... they do it because it feels right to them and is how they want to express this and that.
 
Originally posted by yanch yanch wrote:

...
Society for some reason needs to label things. Some times I think it's just laziness or ignorance. Why not, as they say just call it Gentle Giant music or Zappa music. No matter, it's nice to hear these 2 talk about it.
...
 
I think it's laziness, and also a lack of appreciation for the music itself. It has become about the favoritism and not th emusic itself. I don't prefer one style over another ... it's all music! It's like saying that you can express yourself ... and sometimes you get far out results that end up getting used.
 
And too much of today's music is all notes and less music for my ears, as they are way too formatted for my tastes ... but there are some very good things out there.
 
Originally posted by yanch yanch wrote:

...
I was also really impressed to learn that GG didn't write the music down, it was done by ear and memory! That shows just what amazing musicians they were.
...
 
Expression is a natural response, be it you, me, GG or anyone else on this board.
 
The main problem is that we think that since it came via this tube all the way through the funnel and then was blessed by PA, then it is "progressive", instead of it having been just ... it happened in the garage, we recorded it and then we ended up keeping most of it because it was too good or too far out!
The upside of the free form-ness is that it has something else going for it ... and is unpredictable. And this was the exciting side of the progressive music that we love dearly.  But then, when it was written via the "expression" at that moment, instead of "composed" it tends to have another living entity, that for the most part, folks that are used to top ten and public displays of their preference, in general, will not be able to enjoy.
 
If you could hear, the comments and the feelings generated from the other radio folks about so much of this music, like I had a chance to do ... you probably would have appreciated my comments a lot more. Let me tell you that it was not fun, and no one at that station played GG except Guy ... until it became bigger ... of course!
 
Things like the KC first album were also improvised, but I would have called that a "guided improvisation" (theater term), which in essence means that you clean up the rough edges to create something that expresses all the desired moments more clearly. These days, Robert makes it look like it was all composed ... and the basic notes can be written down, but the effects ... not as easily!
 
But it also tells you that these folks were not afraid of "music" and/or the "metronome" ... now start imagining what some of these copykat "prog" bands would be able to do if they set aside the metronomic drummer and actually make use of the musician inside that body! ... you would have something akin to what we love ... different of course, but it can't happen when you can only go back to the single most basic thing in music that is used to teach beginners. This, in general, hurts the prog and progressive folks more than anything else ... you have to get beyond the music and the notes!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nhl6jersey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2012 at 07:34



Edited by DamoXt7942 - April 21 2012 at 18:43
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2012 at 07:40
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Edited by aginor - April 20 2012 at 07:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2012 at 07:46
I watched the clip late yesterday and didn't have time to respond, but thanks for putting this up.  I think the sentiments of the musicians aren't a real surprise - and I think they echo what a lot of people here already know and understand, that "prog" is just a term of convenience (or its evil twin, laziness) rather than an actual thing, but that this term is nonetheless useful and practical for people like us.

The real treat was seeing Gary and Malcolm.  I like Gentle Giant and have their albums, but I'd never really seen what any of them look like before, outside of album jacket photos.  Eventually I'll probably check out a DVD - I'm sure they're a lot of fun to watch.


Edited by HolyMoly - April 20 2012 at 07:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2012 at 07:48

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2012 at 13:10
Originally posted by aginor aginor wrote:

...
 i would live to be a fly on the wall when the academic music students discussing the rock music of Gentle Giant
 
Haha!!! I would rather be a musician playing with them, or a poet reading some words to the music ... or at least sitting in that audience and enjoying something that I know is right and worth it ... but it's weird seeing so many folks talking about this, when many of them don't like improvisations, and part of the definition of "progressive" tends to diss that kind of music.
 
... fly on the wall ... yeah ... let me get that can of Raid ... Embarrassed
 
(Btw, funniest commercial I ever saw was in one of those commercial bangup shows on PBS, and there was a French commercial for a product that killed bugs, and they got this big guy with muscles all over to do it, and he had the can in his hand. By the middle of the wording there is a fly around him bugging him and he rushes his words to the end, and when he's done he takes the can and wacks the fly with it! ... I still think that is one of the funniest commercials I have ever seen. Gives the meaning of fly on the wall a different connotation, of course, but your idea is right.)
 
Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2012 at 13:24
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

The real treat was seeing Gary and Malcolm.  I like Gentle Giant and have their albums, but I'd never really seen what any of them look like before, outside of album jacket photos.  Eventually I'll probably check out a DVD - I'm sure they're a lot of fun to watch.
 
Ohhh, sure you have to, Giant On The Box and GG at the GG are really great, I recently found that GG at the GG is in full on YouTube so you have no excuse Smile
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2012 at 13:30
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

The real treat was seeing Gary and Malcolm.  I like Gentle Giant and have their albums, but I'd never really seen what any of them look like before, outside of album jacket photos.  Eventually I'll probably check out a DVD - I'm sure they're a lot of fun to watch.
 
Ohhh, sure you have to, Giant On The Box and GG at the GG are really great, I recently found that GG at the GG is in full on YouTube so you have no excuse Smile
 
 
 


I want to shake your hand.  Thanks for the tip!! Cool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2012 at 14:02
Hi,
 
It's not a bad interview, but it gives you an idea of some of the mentality of many of the "progressive" folks asking questions, and sometimes almost suggesting that the definition we (progressive boards, not just us) created and that we have the right definition for it all ... and we did not even consider those musicians feelings when we "created" the definition of the term.
 
And while I don't think that Gary was rude, by saying that it was all inside here and felt good, it, pretty much said it all, and the reviewer lost the ability to expand on that inner talent and freedom inside that helped create all this music ... a "secret" that we're not interested in because our definition of "progressive" is more importnat?
 
While it was a nice interview and both musicians were not worried about talking ... they obviously have had many folks ask them the same questions before, in the end, again, this is the part where I state, again, that we need to evaluate this definition so Robert Fripp's idea, Gary Green's idea, Keith's idea and others helps valiadate and verify the music's strength and beauty ... with a definition that will have many of these folks proud to be associated with all of us, instead of a slight mocking tone that it was called "art rock" then!
 
Right now, the whole thing feels like it is all a media control thing (PA fits the bill just like Melody Maker and New Music Express did then -- I think Melody Maker was one of the first to use the term .. at least from Dean's picture of a poster ... but at the time, it was not called "progressive" until Dean showed us a picture of a poster ... and guess what ... the bands in it were not the ones we like a whole lot ... and too many folks here have not heard the Edgar Broughton Band ... which I would have considered a "college art rock band" -- by today's standards. Maybe the new "progressive" was supposed to be more street wise than the "art rock" crowd that tend to be over stuffed?
 
The sad part was the interviewer trying to impose an idea on a person that was totally idealistic and expressive in their freedom of expression in their music -- something that the interviewer lacked. And this makes for interviews that can be frustrating and not helpful in the end.
 
I wish I could let go of some of the reviews, and press clippings for many artists, because in the end, we're not looking very "educated" and neither are we on "the same wave length" as that artist ... and we need to better bridge that gap!
 
But it was grand to see and hear Gary and Malcom say anything ... it's been way so long since we heard anything that helped us detail these things better, but you could tell right away that these folks were intelligent and then some ... and sometimes I think that we want all of this stuff to be rock'n'roll so we do not have to worry about descriptions or definitions at all.
 
If you can get a Daevid or Gilly sitting down with you and talking, it will be a similar thing, but they are more interested in having a cup of tea with you and having a nice giggle during the talk ... during which you learn about the person behind it all ... which is what made the music in the first place! Not our ideas!
 
Still .. great work finding and posting this Aginor ... absolutely excellent!


Edited by moshkito - April 23 2012 at 15:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Triceratopsoil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2012 at 14:07
I still think Egg explains prog best


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2012 at 14:14
At the end of the day Gentle Giant are/were a Prog band. Whatever they say.
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2012 at 15:32
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

At the end of the day Gentle Giant are/were a Prog band. Whatever they say.
 
There you have it folks .. total disrespect for the artist because the social'ist idea is more important.
 
Best example yet!
 
f**k the artist! He's stupid and doesn't know a thing about what he is doing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2012 at 15:55
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

At the end of the day Gentle Giant are/were a Prog band. Whatever they say.
 
There you have it folks .. total disrespect for the artist because the social'ist idea is more important.
 
Best example yet!
 
f**k the artist! He's stupid and doesn't know a thing about what he is doing!

Nope.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2012 at 16:11
It's a natural impulse to classify things.  It creates boundaries of discussion that make meaningful discourse possible.  Would this place be more interesting if it were just called GoodMusicArchives?  As I said above, we KNOW that the term "Prog" is a fan-made construct.  What else could it be?  But that doesn't make it bad.  It's a useful term in that most of us have a general consensus as to what it means, and it allows discussion to ensue around a vague set of boundaries.  Or, as often happens, discussion of the boundaries themselves.

I have never met a musician who likes being labeled.  If I spent months making an album, and then someone wrote a review saying it sounds like King Crimson, one of my first responses would probably be, "But I'm me, I'm not King Crimson!  Don't you have anything to say about ME?"  So it's a natural impulse for artists to be ambivalent about their music being cordoned off into labels and categories. 

It would probably be more formally "accurate" for each band/artist to be judged and discussed entirely on its own merits, with no simplistic labels and genre categories to undermine the artists' individuality.  But our minds don't work like that!  As we gain experience listening to stuff, our minds naturally search for analogs, past experiences which resemble what we're experiencing now... thus allowing us to file these experiences away in more orderly "mental files" rather than a bunch of loose paper scattered on the floor of our minds.   As our level of experience grows, so grows the filing cabinet, as well as the specificity level of the mental files therein.  This is why, for example, PA has dozens of different types of progressive rock, while the average man of the street has only one or two.

So in conclusion, let the discussers have fun with their names and categories, and we'll all agree to understand the artists' protests to the contrary, finally arriving at the compromise to acknowledge that the labels are terms of convenience, but not "just" terms of convenience - they have real value in the understanding and discussion of music, and increase in sophistication the more music we listen to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zombywoof Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2012 at 19:24
Originally posted by aginor aginor wrote:



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