Progarchives.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Polls
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Spanishing Crimson!
  FAQ FAQ  Forum SearchSearch  Calendar   Register Register  Login Login

Spanishing Crimson!
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
Poll Question: What's your favourite KC track with distinctive acoustic guitar?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
4 [11.43%]
13 [37.14%]
5 [14.29%]
2 [5.71%]
0 [0.00%]
2 [5.71%]
0 [0.00%]
4 [11.43%]
0 [0.00%]
5 [14.29%]
You can not vote in this poll

Author
Message
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 32907 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Spanishing Crimson!
    Posted: April 24 2012 at 14:23
Originally posted by Gandalff

Originally posted by Gerinski

Originally posted by Evolver

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Cirkus. But I don't know whether it is Spanish or Acoustic guitar.
Listen closely.  Does Fripp play a "C" or a "si" ?
 
Never mind, but C is "do" (and "si" is B).
"Spanish" or "classical" guitar is one of the basic types (we can say archetype) of acoustic guitars. These terms may coincide to someone, but in principle, their sounds are very similar.  Different types of acoustic guitars distinct mainly in size, by the number of strings or tuning. A  vastly different is the sound of various steel or resophonic guitars. (However, I don't remember, something like that was ever used by Robert Fripp.)

Not quite right.  An acoustic guitar has a narrower neck than a Spanish/Classical guitar. Probably the same width as an  electric. Spanish guitar does sound different to acoustic though. So I suspect Cirkus has acoustic guitar. As do all of these I suspect.




Edited by Snow Dog - April 24 2012 at 14:38
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
Back to Top
Progarchives.com
Advertisement 		Sponsored links (registered users, log in to remove)
 
Gandalff View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 07 2007
Location: Middle-Earth
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4106 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Gandalff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 14:46
Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by Gandalff

Originally posted by Gerinski

Originally posted by Evolver

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Cirkus. But I don't know whether it is Spanish or Acoustic guitar.
Listen closely.  Does Fripp play a "C" or a "si" ?
 
Never mind, but C is "do" (and "si" is B).
"Spanish" or "classical" guitar is one of the basic types (we can say archetype) of acoustic guitars. These terms may coincide to someone, but in principle, their sounds are very similar.  Different types of acoustic guitars distinct mainly in size, by the number of strings or tuning. A  vastly different is the sound of various steel or resophonic guitars. (However, I don't remember, something like that was ever used by Robert Fripp.)

Not quite right.  An acoustic guitar has a narrower neck than a Spanish/Classical guitar. Probably the same width as an  electric. Spanish guitar does sound different to acoustic though.
But that doesn't exclude my previous statement at all!
 
By the way, if we take into consideration that the Spanish guitar is a subtype of acoustic guitar, it  cannot sound differently in principle. Example: alto is a subtype of the female voice, so sounds like a female voice. The male voice, on the other hand, sounds significantly different.
A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
Back to Top
Gandalff View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 07 2007
Location: Middle-Earth
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4106 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Gandalff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 14:57
During invent the title of this poll I thought about a kind of "Acousting Crimson ". Finally, I found "Spanishing" as a nicer and more convenient term. Namely, "Acousting" can also mean "Unplugged". And I was thinking about distinctive acoustic,  respectively Spanish guitar. Enough?
A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
Back to Top
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 32907 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 14:57
Originally posted by Gandalff

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by Gandalff

Originally posted by Gerinski

Originally posted by Evolver

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Cirkus. But I don't know whether it is Spanish or Acoustic guitar.
Listen closely.  Does Fripp play a "C" or a "si" ?
 
Never mind, but C is "do" (and "si" is B).
"Spanish" or "classical" guitar is one of the basic types (we can say archetype) of acoustic guitars. These terms may coincide to someone, but in principle, their sounds are very similar.  Different types of acoustic guitars distinct mainly in size, by the number of strings or tuning. A  vastly different is the sound of various steel or resophonic guitars. (However, I don't remember, something like that was ever used by Robert Fripp.)

Not quite right.  An acoustic guitar has a narrower neck than a Spanish/Classical guitar. Probably the same width as an  electric. Spanish guitar does sound different to acoustic though.
But that doesn't exclude my previous statement at all!
 
By the way, if we take into consideration that the Spanish guitar is a subtype of acoustic guitar, it  cannot sound differently in principle. Example: alto is a subtype of the female voice, so sounds like a female voice. The male voice, on the other hand, sounds significantly different.

Please yourself. But they do sound different.
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
Back to Top
Triceratopsoil View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Deadmonton
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 16237 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Triceratopsoil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 14:58
None of these tracks feature guitar that is "spanish" in any way

[QUOTE=Vompatti]I wouldn't put a Warr guitar in my vagina.[/QUOTE]
Back to Top
Wanorak View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 09 2006
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1926 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Wanorak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 14:58
Epitaph!!
A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!!
Back to Top
Fox On The Rocks View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 10 2011
Location: Toronto, Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4790 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Fox On The Rocks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 15:02
Exiles
Back to Top
Man With Hat View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz-Rock/Fusion Team

Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 37005 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Man With Hat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 15:02
Cirkus
Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
Back to Top
Gandalff View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 07 2007
Location: Middle-Earth
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4106 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Gandalff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 15:13
Originally posted by Triceratopsoil

None of these tracks feature guitar that is "spanish" in any way
Never mind. I've explained it above... Nevertheless, I think the poll question is obvious.
A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
Back to Top
Horizons View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Math Rock Team

Joined: January 20 2011
Location: Somewhere Else
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9784 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Horizons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 15:17
Your poll is flawed! *gasp*
Persuasion deflowers your sympathy.
Back to Top
sagichim View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 29 2006
Location: Israel
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2669 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sagichim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 15:23
Originally posted by Gandalff

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by Gandalff

Originally posted by Gerinski

Originally posted by Evolver

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Cirkus. But I don't know whether it is Spanish or Acoustic guitar.


Listen closely.  Does Fripp play a "C" or a "si" ?

 
Never mind, but C is "do" (and "si" is B).

<SPAN id=result_ lang=en f="4" a="undefined" closure_uid_6p7vyd="197" pc="null"><SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="5473"><SPAN id=result_ lang=en f="4" a="undefined" closure_uid_6p7vyd="197" pc="null"><SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7436" pc="null">"Spanish</SPAN><SPAN closure_uid_6p7vyd="7437" pc="null">" or</SPAN> <SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7438" pc="null">"classical</SPAN><SPAN closure_uid_6p7vyd="7439" pc="null">"</SPAN> <SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7440" pc="null">guitar is</SPAN> <SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7441" pc="null">one of the basic</SPAN> <SPAN ? ="hps=" closure_uid_6p7vyd="7442" pc="null" atn?="">types (</SPAN><SPAN closure_uid_6p7vyd="7443" pc="null">we can say</SPAN> <SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7444" pc="null">archetype</SPAN><SPAN closure_uid_6p7vyd="7445" pc="null">)</SPAN> <SPAN ? ="hps=" closure_uid_6p7vyd="7446" pc="null" alt-edited?="">of acoustic</SPAN> <SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7447" pc="null">guitars.</SPAN> <SPAN ? ="hps=" closure_uid_6p7vyd="7448" pc="null" alt-edited?="">These terms</SPAN> <SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7449" pc="null">may</SPAN> <SPAN ? ="hps=" closure_uid_6p7vyd="7450" pc="null" alt-edited?="">coincide</SPAN> <SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7451" pc="null">to someone</SPAN><SPAN closure_uid_6p7vyd="7452" pc="null">, but in</SPAN> <SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7453" pc="null">principle,</SPAN> <SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7454" pc="null">their sounds</SPAN> <SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7455" pc="null">are</SPAN> <SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7456" pc="null">very similar. </SPAN><SPAN closure_uid_6p7vyd="7457" pc="null"> Different</SPAN> <SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7458" pc="null">types</SPAN> of acoustic guitars <SPAN ? ="hps=" closure_uid_6p7vyd="7459" pc="null" alt-edited?="">distinct</SPAN> <SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7460" pc="null">mainly</SPAN> <SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7461" pc="null">in size,</SPAN> <SPAN ? ="hps=" closure_uid_6p7vyd="7462" pc="null" alt-edited?="">by the number</SPAN> <SPAN ? ="hps=" closure_uid_6p7vyd="7463" pc="null" alt-edited?="">of strings</SPAN> <SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7464" pc="null">or</SPAN> <SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7465" pc="null">tuning.</SPAN> <SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7466" pc="null">A  <SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7468" pc="null">vastly</SPAN> different</SPAN> <SPAN ? ="hps=" closure_uid_6p7vyd="7467" pc="null" alt-edited?="">is the sound </SPAN><SPAN ? ="hps=" closure_uid_6p7vyd="7469" pc="null" alt-edited?="">of various</SPAN> <SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7470" pc="null">steel</SPAN> <SPAN ? ="hps=" closure_uid_6p7vyd="7471" pc="null" alt-edited?="">or</SPAN> <SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7472" pc="null">resophonic</SPAN> <SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7473" pc="null">guitars.</SPAN> <SPAN ? ="hps=" closure_uid_6p7vyd="7474" pc="null" atn?="">(However, </SPAN><SPAN closure_uid_6p7vyd="7475" pc="null">I don't remember</SPAN><SPAN closure_uid_6p7vyd="7476" pc="null">, </SPAN><SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7477" pc="null">something like that</SPAN> was ever <SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7478" pc="null">used</SPAN> <SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7479" pc="null">by Robert</SPAN> <SPAN ='hps=""' closure_uid_6p7vyd="7480" pc="null">Fripp</SPAN><SPAN closure_uid_6p7vyd="7481" pc="null">.)</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>


Not quite right.  An acoustic guitar has a narrower neck than a Spanish/Classical guitar. Probably the same width as an  electric. Spanish guitar does sound different to acoustic though.

<SPAN id=result_ lang=en =short_text f="4" a="undefined" Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="197"><SPAN =hps Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="7793">But that</SPAN> <SPAN ="hps alt-edited" Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="7794">doesn't exclude</SPAN> <SPAN =hps Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="7796">my previous</SPAN> <SPAN =hps Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="7797">statement <SPAN =hps Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="7795">at <FONT style=": #f88; COLOR: #000" id=SLOVNIK_HIGHLIGHT>all</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="7798">!

<SPAN id=result_ lang=en f="4" a="undefined" Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="197"><SPAN =hps Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="10570">
 

By the way,</SPAN> <SPAN =hps Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="10571">if we take</SPAN> <SPAN =hps Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="10572">into consideration</SPAN> <SPAN =hps Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="10573">that the Spanish</SPAN> <SPAN =hps Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="10574">guitar</SPAN> <SPAN =hps Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="10575">is a subtype of</SPAN> <SPAN ="hps alt-edited" Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="10576">acoustic</SPAN> <SPAN =hps Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="10577">guitar, it </SPAN> <SPAN =hps Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="10578">cannot</SPAN> <SPAN =hps Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="10579">sound</SPAN> <SPAN =hps Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="10581">differently <SPAN =hps Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="10580">in principle</SPAN>.</SPAN> <SPAN =hps Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="10582">Example:</SPAN> <SPAN ="hps alt-edited" Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="10583">alto</SPAN> <SPAN =hps Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="10584">is a subtype of</SPAN> <SPAN =hps Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="10585">the female voice</SPAN><SPAN Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="10586">, so</SPAN> <SPAN =hps Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="10587">sounds like a</SPAN> <SPAN =hps Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="10588">female voice</SPAN><SPAN Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="10589">.</SPAN> <SPAN =hps Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="10590">The male</SPAN> <SPAN =hps Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="10591">voice, on the other hand, sounds</SPAN> <SPAN ="hps alt-edited" Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="10592">significantly</SPAN> <SPAN =hps Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="10593">different</SPAN><SPAN Pc="null" closure_uid_6p7vyd="10594">.
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>


Spanish or Classical guitar for that matter sounds different from an acoustic guitar, they are built differently and are using a different set of strings. If I remember correctly Cirkus contains Spanish guitar and not acoustic, but I'll have to check it out later.
Back to Top
Gandalff View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 07 2007
Location: Middle-Earth
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4106 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Gandalff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 15:25
Originally posted by Horizons

Your poll is flawed! *gasp*
Your shout is useless! *splash*
Cool
A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
Back to Top
sagichim View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 29 2006
Location: Israel
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2669 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sagichim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 15:26
What the hell happened here??
Back to Top
Gandalff View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 07 2007
Location: Middle-Earth
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4106 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Gandalff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 15:28
Originally posted by sagichim

What the hell happened here??
Nothing substantial.
A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
Back to Top
sagichim View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 29 2006
Location: Israel
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2669 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sagichim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 15:35
My post has spam inside, maybe it's my phone's fault.
Back to Top
musicbandit View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
Avatar

Joined: April 17 2007
Location: UK, London
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28 		Post Options Post Options   Quote musicbandit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 16:18
Originally posted by Snow Dog

Supertramp instead of KC? Hell no.

It's debatable whether KC have done 4 classic albums - ITCOFCK is, Red is, Discipline is, debatably Starless and In the Wake of - Supertramp HAVE: Crime of the Century, Breakfast, Crisis, Even. HELL YES.
Back to Top
musicbandit View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
Avatar

Joined: April 17 2007
Location: UK, London
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28 		Post Options Post Options   Quote musicbandit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 16:21
Originally posted by Gandalff

Originally posted by sagichim

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Supertramp instead of KC? Hell no.


Hell no no no no no no no no no....
Hell no for eleventh!!!
 
The same case as Pavlov's Dog. I can't really stand that annoying Surkamp's voice.
 
And Kayak? 3rd league or what?


Pavlov's Dog - both their two albums are classics - criminally underrated.

Kayak - I personally think they have made some classic albums (definitely classic songs) but the point is: both these bands have arguably more HEART in their music, hence stop talking quite so much about KC, give other bands their due.
Back to Top
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 32907 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 16:30
Originally posted by musicbandit

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Supertramp instead of KC? Hell no.

It's debatable whether KC have done 4 classic albums - ITCOFCK is, Red is, Discipline is, debatably Starless and In the Wake of - Supertramp HAVE: Crime of the Century, Breakfast, Crisis, Even. HELL YES.

Supertramp haven't even made one good album.Cool
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
Back to Top
aginor View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: March 21 2008
Location: Flĺklypa
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 18018 		Post Options Post Options   Quote aginor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 16:40
Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by musicbandit

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Supertramp instead of KC? Hell no.

It's debatable whether KC have done 4 classic albums - ITCOFCK is, Red is, Discipline is, debatably Starless and In the Wake of - Supertramp HAVE: Crime of the Century, Breakfast, Crisis, Even. HELL YES.

Supertramp haven't even made one good album.Cool
when i joined PA Crime was on top 10 in PA , now they are in top 30, genious album, a real gem of art rock

also i vote for Poseidon
you know Procol Harum created their own nieche in prog in the 70s like theyr own symph prog sound which they molded to their own IMO, quote Aginor
Back to Top
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 32907 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2012 at 16:51
Originally posted by aginor

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by musicbandit

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Supertramp instead of KC? Hell no.

It's debatable whether KC have done 4 classic albums - ITCOFCK is, Red is, Discipline is, debatably Starless and In the Wake of - Supertramp HAVE: Crime of the Century, Breakfast, Crisis, Even. HELL YES.

Supertramp haven't even made one good album.Cool
when i joined PA Crime was on top 10 in PA , now they are in top 30, genious album, a real gem of art rock




I respectfully disagree
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.69
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.141 seconds.