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Modern Prog
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Posts: 4577 		Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Modern Prog
    Posted: May 29 2012 at 08:41
Originally posted by Nick Dilley

... 
Here is an excerpt from that conversation:

"And when [categorization goes too far], it FEELS like it's more intellectual but it only serves to muddle the truth. When you can break through that mask of "let's define prog as this static thing, and oh btw there are 1000 kinds of prog" you see that the ONLY way to understand prog (and music, and any art) is through its essence. Sometimes you can only understand a thing by knowing what it is not. Not knowing exactly what it is.
...
Bruce Lee's philosophy applies perfectly because it allows for growth and has no limitations. People tend to associate prog with intellectual music. That's one of the reasons, imo, that people think that (falsely intellectual) uber-classification is a good thing. Or a "right" thing.
...
 
This is one reason why the addition and discussion of the artform as a QUOTIDIAN study is, sometimes, more valuable and helps clarify the music a lot better. For example, and it is almost a literal example, is the way that Robert Fripp uses his guitar and the other gent uses his saxophone in 21st Century Schizoid Man ... it's an assault and the result? ... only those affected know! ... but in the end, the recklessness of that man in countless wars killing and attacking ... or an immediate representation of the conflicts in VietNam and the IRA at the time ... when we would be crying in the morning for our lost friends ... helps explain the whole of the music, the time and place a LOT better, than illusive details like jagged guitar, keyboards ... or what not ... which is almost crazy of a definition that does not explain anything musically ... that had not been done before! ... like Stravinsky did not have "jagged guitars" in the form of various strings on the orchestra, or massive keyboards in the form of ... it's a bizarre description of the use of music with an instrument to say the least, and does not give creedence to the musician for his own understanding of the music, the time, and the place ... it makes it look like some kind of egocentric music behavior that someone employed at a given time and place, and it didn't happen before. It places the music in an egocentric place that is not always representative of music history, although we already accept by our schooling ... that the greatest musicians, were the greatest egotists, in order to get done what they did?
 
How rock'n'roll top ten, fame thing for us this is, right?
The master holy man said from his trinity in the chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... is always better sex and music!

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rogerthat View Drop Down
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Posts: 4744 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2012 at 11:20
Originally posted by ExittheLemming

Originally posted by rogerthat

Originally posted by Atavachron

  In Prog that could mean striving to develop phrases and passages to a significant extent, the potential for radical changes within a piece, and an option to avoid repeating oneself.



The problem is this could just as easily be used to describe classical music.  Prog is a term with an historical reference and applied to music dating AFTER a certain point in music history.   If it has to maintain a connection with its birth, it must at the very least be rock.  And that by itself imposes certain boundaries on what prog can be.  It can't really be anything under the sun, it must be rock.  Otherwise, prog could have originated at any point from the days of Bach or Vivaldi, if not even further back in time.  As a music form within rock that strives to develop rather than repeat, prog rock is still a wide umbrella.  But the problem starts when we try to narrow the boundaries even further just so that it sounds like what prog rock used to sound like 30 years back.


Perceptive post certainly.
Question: Is this pre-requisite we might recognise as the primal pulse or heartbeat of 'Rock' cast in stone for eternity?
Is it unchanging from Chuck Berry to Gentle Giant to Tool?. Can it mutate, evolve or even (gulp) progress?


Rock is not, fortunately, just a sound or one kind of sound, at any rate.  Rock has a wide connotation and it has indeed evolved from Chuck Berry to Muse.   It's no coincidence that prog metal became popular with younger audiences in the 90s or Mars Volta in the last decade.  For how long rock will continue to evolve remains to be seen, but the end is not yet in sight hopefully.
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Nick Dilley View Drop Down
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Posts: 85 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Nick Dilley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2012 at 22:14
Hey Guys,

I've mentioned this before, so I hope I'm not bothering anyone here, but I maintain a very periodic blog on the nature of prog and maybe some of you would enjoy reading it: http://progressivediscussion.blogspot.com/

ExittheLemming- one of the key issues my blog addresses is the changing nature of "the progressive." I promise I'm not spamming--I hope you all would get something out of reading the 4 entries I've completed so far, and directing you there would be easier to get my ideas across. The 4th entry is rather long, but the rest are easier to digest in shorter sittings.

Rogerthat--prog rock must at least be prog..but I think that going way back before rock was around, guys like Debussy were progressive as hell, (and his music is utterly timeless, imo, which is a testament to its quality) and in regard to popular music he still is one of the most innovative composers ever. So i think that "progressive" can apply to all sorts of music that isn't rock at all. Prog rock, on the other hand, must be rock as you stated...but at the same time, if it sounds like prog from 30-40 years ago, then it is probably rock, but probably not prog in a contemporary sense.

just my opinion.
Progging the Rock, Rocking the Prog.

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aquiel View Drop Down
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Posts: 3 		Post Options Post Options   Quote aquiel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2012 at 06:58
http://magrathea.bandcamp.com/album/in-search-of-the-crystal

This is Good.
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Big Ears View Drop Down
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Posts: 615 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Big Ears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2012 at 02:38
I've tried, but I cannot get into modern progressive rock. Something is stopping me.
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