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Ryan Seacrest Makes $15 Million A Year

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smartpatrol View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote smartpatrol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ryan Seacrest Makes $15 Million A Year
    Posted: May 01 2012 at 16:13
Originally posted by RoyFairbank

A mans income should be a function of his needs.

15 million is more than any man's needs are worth.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2012 at 16:51
Originally posted by smartpatrol

Originally posted by RoyFairbank

A mans income should be a function of his needs.

15 million is more than any man's needs are worth.
 
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You two can have fun in your world in which there are nearly no highly-qualified, highly-regulated doctors, educators, architects, attorneys, plumbers, pharmacists, electricians, restauranteurs, police...

Pay me according to my needs instead of my expertise and effort, and I'll gladly flip burgers for an hour a day.  Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2012 at 17:43
Originally posted by Epignosis

Originally posted by smartpatrol

Originally posted by RoyFairbank

A mans income should be a function of his needs.

15 million is more than any man's needs are worth.
 
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You two can have fun in your world in which there are nearly no highly-qualified, highly-regulated doctors, educators, architects, attorneys, plumbers, pharmacists, electricians, restauranteurs, police...

Pay me according to my needs instead of my expertise and effort, and I'll gladly flip burgers for an hour a day.  Big smile
That argument isn't as convincing as it first appears for there are people who work because they enjoy it, especially the highly-qualified and the highly-regulated, I would go as far as to say I wouldn't feel happy about employing a doctor, educator (why aren't retired teachers called taughters?), architect, attorney, plumber, pharmacist, electrician, restaurateur or policeman who was only doing it for the commensurate salary. Not withstanding I would develop a sizable "need" to endure flipping burgers for an hour a day.


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2012 at 17:55
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by Epignosis

Originally posted by smartpatrol

Originally posted by RoyFairbank

A mans income should be a function of his needs.

15 million is more than any man's needs are worth.
 
Approve


You two can have fun in your world in which there are nearly no highly-qualified, highly-regulated doctors, educators, architects, attorneys, plumbers, pharmacists, electricians, restauranteurs, police...

Pay me according to my needs instead of my expertise and effort, and I'll gladly flip burgers for an hour a day.  Big smile
That argument isn't as convincing as it first appears for there are people who work because they enjoy it, especially the highly-qualified and the highly-regulated, I would go as far as to say I wouldn't feel happy about employing a doctor, educator (why aren't retired teachers called taughters?), architect, attorney, plumber, pharmacist, electrician, restaurateur or policeman who was only doing it for the commensurate salary. Not withstanding I would develop a sizable "need" to endure flipping burgers for an hour a day.


There are such people, but that is why I said "nearly no" as opposed to "no."  How many would do what their jobs require and do them for a straw hut, some water, rations of bean curd, and no Ryan Seacrest to watch in the evening?  Unhappy

I love teaching, and I take home (for a family of four, soon to be five) about exactly what we need each month to maintain our standard of living (and we have no house in the country; we have no motorcar).  In other words, if I could make what I make as a teacher 8 hours a day or as a flipper of burgers 1 hour a day, I'd very quickly choose the burgers (I enjoying being in a kitchen too).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2012 at 18:18
Originally posted by Epignosis


There are such people, but that is why I said "nearly no" as opposed to "no."  How many would do what their jobs require and do them for a straw hut, some water, rations of bean curd, and no Ryan Seacrest to watch in the evening?  Unhappy

I love teaching, and I take home (for a family of four, soon to be five) about exactly what we need each month to maintain our standard of living (and we have no house in the country; we have no motorcar).  In other words, if I could make what I make as a teacher 8 hours a day or as a flipper of burgers 1 hour a day, I'd very quickly choose the burgers (I enjoying being in a kitchen too).
If everyone had a straw hut, some water, rations of bean curd, and no Ryan Seacrest to watch in the evening then we wouldn't know any different - the reward for being a doctor, teachers, architect, attorney, plumber, pharmacist, electrician, restaurateur or policeman would no longer be monetary - it would be someother form of status or recognition of accomplishment, but there would still be highly-qualified "professional" people.
 
Maybe you would take the burger job I wouldn't, even though I also enjoy being in a kitchen - I (and I suspect you) would soon want the restaurateur job because it is more interesting, more challenging and more satisfying (regardless of how much it paid).


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Post Options Post Options   Quote RoyFairbank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2012 at 18:22
@epignosis

There would be a limit to how many burger flipping jobs would be available if it was that popular. There would still be a required Division of Labor in the economy. At some point the "easy jobs" would no longer be available, or there would be a bottleneck, assuming everyone was like you and desired to do them (which we should not assume). They would be forced to go down different career paths. It would be a matter of individual taste what career path one would go down, but you would be compelled by the division of labor to end up at different careers. The division of labor predates capitalism by millenia, as does many professions, such as doctor and teacher.



Edited by RoyFairbank - May 01 2012 at 18:22
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2012 at 18:27
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by Epignosis


There are such people, but that is why I said "nearly no" as opposed to "no."  How many would do what their jobs require and do them for a straw hut, some water, rations of bean curd, and no Ryan Seacrest to watch in the evening?  Unhappy

I love teaching, and I take home (for a family of four, soon to be five) about exactly what we need each month to maintain our standard of living (and we have no house in the country; we have no motorcar).  In other words, if I could make what I make as a teacher 8 hours a day or as a flipper of burgers 1 hour a day, I'd very quickly choose the burgers (I enjoying being in a kitchen too).
If everyone had a straw hut, some water, rations of bean curd, and no Ryan Seacrest to watch in the evening then we wouldn't know any different - the reward for being a doctor, teachers, architect, attorney, plumber, pharmacist, electrician, restaurateur or policeman would no longer be monetary - it would be someother form of status or recognition of accomplishment, but there would still be highly-qualified "professional" people.
 
Maybe you would take the burger job I wouldn't, even though I also enjoy being in a kitchen - I (and I suspect you) would soon want the restaurateur job because it is more interesting, more challenging and more satisfying (regardless of how much it paid).


But we've eaten the fruit, met Prometheus, taken the red pill, wandered out of Plato's cave and followed the white rabbit, and now nearly no one would go through 8+ years of expensive school, have to maintain malpractice insurance, have to hire a staff to handle insurance claims and scheduling, and deal with illness every day for (literally?) peanuts and a pat on the back.  There may be a few highly-qualified people left, but I doubt many of those would be willing to be highly-regulated.

As for running a restaurant, I've thought about it, but decided against it because I enjoy my evenings at home.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2012 at 18:34
Originally posted by RoyFairbank

@epignosis

There would be a limit to how many burger flipping jobs would be available if it was that popular. There would still be a required Division of Labor in the economy. At some point the "easy jobs" would no longer be available, or there would be a bottleneck, assuming everyone was like you and desired to do them (which we should not assume). They would be forced to go down different career paths. It would be a matter of individual taste what career path one would go down, but you would be compelled by the division of labor to end up at different careers. The division of labor predates capitalism by millenia, as does many professions, such as doctor and teacher.



Lots of things predate things.  Doesn't mean they don't suck.  Capitalism thrived because we no longer needed the collectivist mentality on a tribal/national scale (though many of us act like we do).  Let a bureaucracy choose careers for us: I might like to be a surgeon, but my hands shake.  You want me taking that tumor out of you?  Big smile

Suppose that I am awful at every task I am given.  No medical reason- I am just that incompetent.  Can I still have what I need?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RoyFairbank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2012 at 12:57
Originally posted by Epignosis

Originally posted by RoyFairbank

@epignosis

There would be a limit to how many burger flipping jobs would be available if it was that popular. There would still be a required Division of Labor in the economy. At some point the "easy jobs" would no longer be available, or there would be a bottleneck, assuming everyone was like you and desired to do them (which we should not assume). They would be forced to go down different career paths. It would be a matter of individual taste what career path one would go down, but you would be compelled by the division of labor to end up at different careers. The division of labor predates capitalism by millenia, as does many professions, such as doctor and teacher.



Lots of things predate things.  Doesn't mean they don't suck.  Capitalism thrived because we no longer needed the collectivist mentality on a tribal/national scale (though many of us act like we do).  Let a bureaucracy choose careers for us: I might like to be a surgeon, but my hands shake.  You want me taking that tumor out of you?  Big smile

Suppose that I am awful at every task I am given.  No medical reason- I am just that incompetent.  Can I still have what I need?


Why do assume people would be appointed? You study a career and are awarded a degree / certification based on performance. If you fail, you can go to another job. It is the same in all societies.

Even the most heavily bureaucratized countries in the 20th century like the Soviet Union produced many talented scientists and doctors. Their system of merit-based education and career training was no different from anywhere else, i.e. it was based on aptitude. Assuming even the most egregious bureaucracy either would want to or even could (imagine the scope of such a bureaucracy!) take over from the basic mechanisms of education, exams, training and certification and replace them with arbitrary appointments, is very odd and unrealistic.

The division of labor and career proliferation by aptitude would be unchanged by remuneration at the level of comprehensive need.
 


Edited by RoyFairbank - May 02 2012 at 13:01
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2012 at 13:07
Also hate to be that guy...but what is "need"?

I personally don't have much need, and tend to look a tad shamefully on those that need a lot...but that is them.
Who is to decide? Should it be me? Can I decide how much you need, Roy?

 
I understand being envious of someone's wealth, and demanding they "pay their fair share"  and I still agree with that somewhat.
But even in my most liberal days...I would never support this society according to needs.
Because by that logic everyone would live on $30,000 (that's a family BTW) since you can literally live on just that much.
If you ever want to go higher, I'd ask "well why is that a need?" Of course in reality this would never happen anyway, unless there was a complete and total redistributive society and in that case where would all the money not going to needs go?

The government?
This is all a bit silly I know, but taking your logic to the end...it's just well, illogical.




Edited by JJLehto - May 02 2012 at 13:13
"It's fine, luckily we're all English so no one will ask any questions. Thank you centuries of emotional repression."
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Vibrationbaby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2012 at 13:27
Originally posted by Snow Dog

I have no idea who he is.
Whoever he is he sounds like some kind of jerk that ought to have a brain transplant..
                
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2012 at 13:27
The largest shift in thinking I've ever had  is:

Instead of seeking to grab from the wealthy...we should just benefit everyone.



Edited by JJLehto - May 02 2012 at 13:33
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Vibrationbaby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2012 at 13:33
        Where's this man when you need him?


                
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2012 at 18:52
We should just cap income at $1 million and spread that wealth around, straight up Huey Long style.
Except it all goes to me first.

I will then absolutely distribute it evenly, you have my word :D
"It's fine, luckily we're all English so no one will ask any questions. Thank you centuries of emotional repression."
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2012 at 19:09
Capping "income" makes no real sense.  There are different kinds of income- some mean working a job and spending money, thereby maintaining jobs, and some mean investing in others' dreams and investments, thereby creating jobs.  I like how money votes.  Approve

But you mean I can start a business that takes $10 million in loans and investments but can only ever get back $1 million a year in income?  To hell with that (and anyone my business could potentially employ).

There will always be poor people- no governmental model can ever change that permanently.


Edited by Epignosis - May 02 2012 at 19:10
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Alitare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2012 at 19:15
Don't give people more and expect them to be happy. Give them less and brainwash them to be happy. That works best. 
He gave her his town house and his racing horses. Each meal she ate was a dozen courses. She had a million dollars worth of nickels and dimes. She sat around and counted them all a million times.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2012 at 19:18
I never can tell with you Rob but I hope, especially given my recent thoughts, you realize my sarcasm...Confused


Of course it makes no sense. That was the point, none of this makes sense.
This "income should reflect needs" business, and the Ryan Seacrest making $15 million thing
It all is lunacy

One of the many reasons it's lunacy is because what people need to accept is: like it or not you won't get the super wealthy to pay their "fair share" whatever you deem it to be. Seriously people, since the days of Monarchs it's never happened.
It's partly what facilitated my shift in beliefs.

I also question what is "wealthy"
People tend to throw this around in regards to the Romneys and Buffets of the world...the CEOs and Wall Street Bankers (the latter IMO are the worst because they shuffle money around making tons for them and investors but don't really contribute to society)
Anywho, that's a small % of the population. This $250K thing is kind of bullsh*t to me. Hell even 100K up...

Those people earned every cent through hard work and I do think it's wrong to burden that group with more taxes.
So people need to define wealthy. If you mean millionaires well OK but "upper middle" no...

"It's fine, luckily we're all English so no one will ask any questions. Thank you centuries of emotional repression."
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2012 at 19:22
The whole Ryan Seacrest thing is this: Someone offered him money to do task(s).  He does those tasks and gets the money.

If someone offered you $15 million to cut the grass of their one acre property (and you got that agreement in writing), I doubt any of you fools would say, "Well, my belief is I should only get what I need, so I'll pass."

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2012 at 19:24
Yes, that's what I said earlier more or lessLOL
The lunacy I meant is about all the opposition to it, and this "needs" business.


Hate to break it to people, (of which I used to be one) but wasn't a needs based society tried and it failed massively?
I mean sure, it wasn't "by the book" but that would've been even worse.
It's just not human nature anyway. We want things, and more.



Edited by JJLehto - May 02 2012 at 19:25
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Textbook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2012 at 19:31
Epig: I honestly believe I would turn $15 million down. I would be ecstatic to to earn one or half a million a year. I would feel extremely uncomfortable with more, especially for hosting a TV show.
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