Progarchives.com has always (since 2002) relied on banners ads to cover web hosting fees and all.
Please consider supporting us by giving monthly PayPal donations and help keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage") |
|
Post Reply 
|
Page 12> |
| Author | |||
whoelse? 
Forum Newbie 
Joined: May 06 2012 Location: Where Else? Status: Offline Points: 8 |
 Topic: Modern Krautrock?Posted: May 12 2012 at 23:05 |
||
|
Is there a band that is carrying on Krautrock? Is Krautrock a dead genre of music? The closest thing that comes to mind is Tortoise.
|
|||
 |
|||
|
tamijo
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: January 06 2009 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 4287 |
Posted: May 12 2012 at 23:15 |
||
|
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
|
|||
|
|||
|
Horizons
Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 20 2011 Location: Somewhere Else Status: Offline Points: 16952 |
Posted: May 12 2012 at 23:41 |
||
|
That is cheating.
|
|||
|
Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
|
|||
|
|||
|
DamoXt7942
Forum & Site Admin Group 
Avant/Cross/Neo/Post Teams Joined: October 15 2008 Location: Okayama, Japan Status: Offline Points: 17459 |
Posted: May 13 2012 at 00:03 |
||
|
Please check Mitsuru Tabata and Siinai.
|
|||
|
|||
|
|||
|
octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13355 |
Posted: May 13 2012 at 03:16 |
||
|
Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
|||
|
|||
|
aSimionescu
Forum Newbie
Joined: August 18 2009 Location: Bucharest Status: Offline Points: 7 |
Posted: May 13 2012 at 03:29 |
||
|
Wow... Electric Orange... Impressive!
|
|||
|
Simionescu-Panait Andrei
|
|||
|
|||
|
harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 18 2008 Location: Anna Calvi Status: Offline Points: 22989 |
Posted: May 13 2012 at 07:27 |
||
|
If you like Tortoise, check out some of their generation colleagues, especially .O.rang, Cul De Sac (they even have an album with Damo Suzuki), Trans Am, Ganger (the compilation with the early singles), Pram (the early records).
|
|||
|
|||
|
Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 17995 |
Posted: May 15 2012 at 19:12 |
||
|
Edited by Triceratopsoil - May 15 2012 at 19:13 |
|||
|
|||
|
Sheavy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 28 2010 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 2855 |
Posted: May 15 2012 at 22:08 |
||
|
Aluk Todolo.
They are easily the most noise-y-est Kraut band out there. |
|||
|
|||
|
|||
|
Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23098 |
Posted: May 16 2012 at 07:16 |
||
|
I'm definitely digging the suggestions here - nice work people!
I think the main problem with modern Krautrock is that it's labelled as something different. A lot of young people do attach themselves to labels, and if it doesn't say Krautrock - well then it's just psych/avant/sludge/whatev. I personally think there's a lot of Krautrock happening at the moment - just venture past the stickers and you're bound to find something striving for the ol cosmic space journeys. All of these incorporate Krautrock into their sound: My Brother the Wind Papir Magdalena Solis Electric Orange Siinai Vespero The Future Kings of England (Check out there first couple of albums) Omoide Hatoba Metabulismus Grails Øresund Space Collective Ghost (Thank you Finnforest for the mentioning) I.E.M. |
|||
|
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
|||
|
|||
|
DamoXt7942
Forum & Site Admin Group
Avant/Cross/Neo/Post Teams Joined: October 15 2008 Location: Okayama, Japan Status: Offline Points: 17459 |
Posted: May 16 2012 at 07:25 |
||
|
^ Enough for OP.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16148 |
Posted: May 16 2012 at 15:01 |
||
|
Hi,
I'll re-listen to some of these, but in general, I don't think you can reinvent the old period ... what is done today will have to stand up on its own, because most of this material ... welll ... is today!, not yesterday.
A lot of people have a tendency to say that a "copy" or a "sounds like" is a good representation of that period and a lot of the things that were listed in the other thread were ver recent, and half of them were not original, good, or that important ... and none of the music was really a statement like the early "krautrock" was.
The angels and demons that brought you "krautrock" were fighting the Berlin Wall, the separated Germany, the hippocrisy of the commune thing that didn't give a dang about anything except sex and drugs, and many other themes that are extremely clear in their work, and one thing ... that these modern bands are not really working on ... as the Berlin Factory used to say ... "music with no Western Concepts in it" ... and guess what you are seeing in most of those ... yet another start ... middle ... end is the same as the start ... and that alone is totally against the "krautrock" idea in the first place.
All in all, I really like Edgar Froese's comments about krautrock in that special ... (paraphrased) .. no past, no future, and all you got is you now ... and that would have been "literal" ... you do not look at other music and you just do it. And many krautrock bands did, differently, and in various forms of music.
That's not to say that the feeling can not be done ... and tell Pedro to stick it and he is wrong, and I'll show you ... but it does mean ... that the freshness, the love, the desire, the hate, the expression, that brought you "krautrock" is not there and is now replaced by something that is supposed to be semi-poetic and interesting because in the middle you just go off on all tangents and it makes it look like it's music. But of all those bands shown, there still is not another "Faust" (playing with sound effects left and right and creating visual stories with them), there still is not one creating long cuts telling you that the commune starts by you getting drugged up and then you get lost in the party, stoned and sex'd out, or you take over 20 hours of music cut it up (as per Burroughs suggestion by the way ... you find any of these bands doing literary things!) and the result? ... Tago Mago ...
I'll re-listen to some of these but the main reason why I got out of that other thread, is not that I'm a purist ... I'm the most unfaithful purist you will ever meet ... but saying that some of this stuff is "krautrock" is like saying that Dream Theater is progressive, not prog, or vice versa.
It doesn't help clarify the music to anyone, while also confusing the issues.
Dean has suggested that musical periods are usually longer than 50 years, and I will give them that ... so these folks have 10 more years to do their stuff ... hehehehehe!!!!! ... but in the end, what are they fighting for and creating music for ... ??? an idea that was not an idea? Don't you think that's weird? Edited by moshkito - May 16 2012 at 15:02 |
|||
|
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
|||
|
|||
|
CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008 Location: Là, sui monti. Status: Offline Points: 10837 |
Posted: May 16 2012 at 16:01 |
||
Fixed. |
|||
|
|||
|
Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23098 |
Posted: May 16 2012 at 19:30 |
||
|
So on one hand you're praising the artists who try and venture out on a sonic ledge, even if that particular brand of music still isn't mainstream or highly thought of even in progressive circles. You also have stated time and again that we need to appreciate the music and the art - dive into it, you know follow the trip wherever it may take you, but still you won't give these acts a benefit of a doubt, because they didn't experience Germany post ww ll and the sixties? Oh yeah you mentioned that you already have all these artists' albums and have subsequently written them off, because they are mimicking the heyday of the Krautrock scene.
I'm sorry Pedro, but even if I partly agree with you on a lot of stuff, ie that the scene drew a lot of inspiration from their guilty past, and that we cannot magically conjure up the past, one still must hear the current bands for their merits and what they're trying to do. I have found a lot of the aforementioned act's output to be wonderfully unharnessed, deconstructed and freeform, and even if that all started with Faust in your mind, it really didn't. It started with jazz and Stockhausen and peeps like that. Nothing exists in a vacuum. So bearing that in mind, one could very easily see these new kids on the block as the natural development of what yesteryear brought us. There is still unique experimentation going on, and the way you just casually castrated the whole scene rather goes against everything I thought you stand for. I am not sure you know enough about the current scene to make any assumptions, even if you as usual try to highlight a fantastic era of music. There is more to music than mirroring it up against it's forefathers to point out that it just wasn't as good as in the good ol days. I bet you're doing the exact same thing as people did to you, when you first started out listening to CAN... Edited by Guldbamsen - May 16 2012 at 19:55 |
|||
|
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
|||
|
|||
|
moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16148 |
Posted: May 17 2012 at 11:25 |
||
I do not write off anything, and I have listened to these intently and in its entirety.
I also, do NOT confuse the feelings I had for Yeti (the, let's say ... and that was 40 years ago!) then with those I have now for it, and when I listen to one of these, it is about the experience NOW, not then.
The main concern I have, and this might just be my ears ... I admit that! ... is that I'm not hearing anything "new" ... the same start ... the same slow down ... the same weird/farout middle and such ... and I keep wondering if the "rule" for krautrock should be ... there is a beginning, middle and an end, and no one knows which starts where! ... which would make the music a lot fresh'er than it sounds to my ear.
A lot of the sounds, and sequnces are all making wiggly to the "known" sound for your ears, and again, this is just like the proffessors (read Can's website pages) telling you ... too much the same ... or then the drummer talking about the repetitive thing ... which nowadays is replaced by the DAW with a drumbeat or metronome!
All of them are very nice and enjoyable. Not a single issue there ...
Today's musician can only "talk" or "sing" about the past ... and it is a 2nd hand experience. I'm not sure that trying to do a "Phallus Dei" today would come off alright ... most listeners today would be expecting a lyricist to tell them what it is, or supposed to be. Instrumental music, is a "story" in and of itself.
I guess tha tlistening to these things, I'm not seeing a story at all ... and I'm not sure that the music itself is telling a story at all. It's like that one group here in Portland that even has a theramin ... and it is just what they call "avant-garde" ... and total free form stuff with a possible design or idea ... but it is not "rock" music even though it has an electric guitar ... it's more like a listening to Stockhausen or Heinemann and hope to see/hear something ... you will feel as cold as I will.
I like what the new kids are doing ... please ... and I did listen to it intently. But I think that it would sound better to me, if they took one of these pieces, let's say ... and did not measure the "krautrock" one, or style, and instead measured how much they need to express their own feeling and idea. I keep thinking that having an "idea" is quite different from "knowing" what the idea and situation is about ... it no longer is an idea ... and the results, within an art context, music, writing, film, whatever, will always be tougher to deal with and understand, and the responses are always quite hard to deal with.
During the days that we were listening to this stuff ... I'll give you examples ... and these are kinda general examples ... but they were true in my esperience from various friends that I played this to and shared.
Neu/Kraftwerk (early)/Faust -- you are really stoned! You call that music?
Amon Duul 2 -- weird!
Amon Duul 1 -- is that a recording of the Grateful Dead's drum party I went to? When that person said no and what it was they turn around and say ... that stinks.
Maggot Brain/Frank Zappa -- far out ... americans on acid! (and we know Frank wasn't!)
Amon Duul 2 slightly later -- these people don't know acid! (no one ever knew Hooffman and someone else found this stuff in Europe first, hey?
King Crimson -- ohh man ... that stuff is too much!
ELP -- Awesome ... farout sound specially loud!
Now, as I listen to these new things, for some reason, I had to go back and hear them again ... guess what? ... I didn't find anyone saying those kinds of things, probably on account of this board. Remember in those days ... you either bought it or not or your friend had it and no one else knew anything about it! So it was all a "brand new" experience when you heard it.
But no ... I like these things ... and that's not to say they are good or bad. I am simply giving you an example of how I experienced the others in those days, and hearing these now today ... and then hearing these new folks. I do think, and this comes from my writing ... that "having something to fight for" or "be united on" helps create more work and art -- why? the themes tend to cross paths and energize each other. As such, each strictly individual example usually does not stand up as well as these.
And then you can go listen to Djam Karet ... and all this gets blown out of proprotion! Best trip rock music around and where krautrock tried to go and never did ... and on top of it, DK say their inspiration was Fripp and Pinhas! Go figure ... nothing we think or say is really correct ... I LOVE IT! i can hear some Fripp in there ... not a lot ... but all in all I hear DK, not anything else ... and I would like to see these other bands ... put their foot down ... harder! So blockheads like me can "get it!"
 And I like Gale's comment to me on an email about the music when I joked that most of it was still in teh sonnata A-B-A format ... he goes ... "I have no idea what format we use. We might start on A and end on Z" ... and between you and I ... I think this is the only expectation I have for that one thing called ... "krautrock"!Edited by moshkito - May 17 2012 at 11:32 |
|||
|
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
|||
|
|||
|
Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23098 |
Posted: May 17 2012 at 14:04 |
||
|
Man - even when I think you're completely hypocritical, I still seem to get where you're coming from. I find that strangely frightening, especially when you're talking like this
 .I guess we're listening with different ears and minds - that's all I can say, because even if I like Djam Karet, I think they are about as original as a garden hose. Lately I've been listening to the Japanese band called Ghost, and to me personally I find them ten times more innovative - and let's not even start with Vespero... You want something more than a metronome - something that rhythm-wise sparks inspiration in the band surrounding it - Vespero is the name of the game: But let's stop this right here and agree to disagree. Subjectivity is perhaps the one thing we can deal with... |
|||
|
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
|||
|
|||
|
moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16148 |
Posted: May 18 2012 at 09:53 |
||
I'm able to describe my inner experience hearing a lot of these things. I think what makes it harder is people trying to make sense of WHY someone has a reason for understanding something or not!
My reasons, would/could/should/might be on account of my multi-cultural background (Portuguese-Brazilian and American in the first 16 years alone!) ... and that meant that a lot of different things formulate in one's mind, and that preferences are often a joke ... why? ... three cultures ... three different preferences ... and these even have a very different place they come from! Portugal -- more traditional. Brazil -- very independent. America -- very controlled by the powers that be!
And the results always differ!
I can only explain, express my experience. As to anything being better than anything else, is highly debatable, but I know tha tthe things I can define and explain usually are a stronger experience for me ... is that "better" and worthy of a review? Or a kick in the a$$?
Who knows?
|
|||
|
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
|||
|
|||
|
CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008 Location: Là, sui monti. Status: Offline Points: 10837 |
Posted: May 18 2012 at 11:48 |
||
|
The Unknown knows.
|
|||
|
|||
|
moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16148 |
Posted: May 21 2012 at 11:36 |
||
Broomhilda will be looking for you! One of the funniest cartoons I ever saw in that series ... she slams the door hard and says ... And never darken my doorway again! ... her friend asks ... who was that? ... and she answers ... Lamont Cranston!
 |
|||
|
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
|||
|
|||
|
moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16148 |
Posted: May 24 2012 at 08:30 |
||
|
HI,
A lot of the issues with definition and understanding, is that too much of the stuff that is defined today ... and is STRICTLY defined by how it sounds ... not what the music has in it, or is, or what its process is. The music should be defined by its process, and the fact that it has this or that and sounds like ... is not a good defining point. The hard part of this? ... if we have a bnad with 4 keyboards, we can not do "krautrock" ... which is bizarre to say the least, if we don't give a darn, and we do pretty much anything and everything and we do not worry about time, meter or anything else -- as those folks did! Or if I want to do this with just drummers (there was a group named Niagara that did it btw) ... and this time of free form spirit is not alive ... except when the band format is so conventional that you and I want to throw up?
Some of these things, that were called "krautrock" ... was more like this ... ohh, that was far out, all they did was this and that, and it was called krautrock. So you and I go to our living rooms, turn on the equipment and do the same thing ... with one problem ... we're doing something off an imaginary idea ... whereas those people might have done it with something else in mind and most of the stuff in those days, was NOT vaccuous music that was just being done because we are trying to show our professors that we also can create and compose crap and music'less music!
Krautrock was an experiment in learning, (hear Edgar Froese's words on that special!), what a sound, or instrument was about, what you were about ... and this is not what some of those folks that had samples here, were doing ... if that was the case, it would not have had a "beginning, middle or an end" like these had ... you would just start ... the experiment and learning now ... not later in the middle. Go read Helmut Hattler's comments. Go read Mani's comments on his website. I like to say that we need to stop thinking that the definition is "krautrock" and the folks that created this music are not. And Mani, is one of the most free form drummers you will ever find ... at his age, he even goes out with Acid Mothers ... and thrash the stage! You don't do that, if you have fear, and the music concept rules you! You have to be open to anything and everything that gets thrown at you, and you will also have things to throw at them! And Mani does!
So, yeah, it's not really about being a purist ... but even the design of some of these ... is lacking! There was NO design in the majority of these original pieces ... and almost all of them say "improvisation" on them ... although some folks like Peter Michael Hamel, will always tell you that there is no such thing as an improvisation! That's another story altogether ... but we're already quoting Peter's words on what music is supposed to be and is not and such! The concept is more important than the person ... and that is wrong! Edited by moshkito - May 24 2012 at 09:01 |
|||
|
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
|||
|
|||
|
Post Reply
|
Page 12> |
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Modern Krautrock?
Topic Options
moshkito wrote: