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ColonelClaypool 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: October 22 2005 Location: Bergen, Norway Status: Offline Points: 747 |
 Topic: Led Zeppelin - Kashmir vs Achilles' Last StandPosted: May 18 2012 at 08:54 |
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I did a forum search but didn't find a similar poll so I thought I'd make one myself.
Which do you prefer of these two songs, arguably Led Zep's two greatest epics?
Personally, I'd say Achilles by a mile, I'm not fond of Kashmir at all.
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With magic, you can turn a frog into a prince.
With science, you can turn a frog into a Ph.D. and you still have the frog you started with. |
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The Bearded Bard
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 24 2012 Location: Behind the Sun Status: Offline Points: 12859 |
Posted: May 18 2012 at 09:00 |
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Achilles for me to, but I prefer Stairway to both of these actually.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: May 18 2012 at 09:21 |
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Love both, but Achilles Last Stand gets the vote fairly easily here. It's one of their most 'exciting' songs. I love the drive of it, and Bonhams drumming is magnificent.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Barbu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 09 2005 Location: infinity Status: Offline Points: 30845 |
Posted: May 18 2012 at 09:59 |
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The mighty Achilles over the mighty Kashmir.
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HolyMoly
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin Joined: April 01 2009 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 26133 |
Posted: May 18 2012 at 10:03 |
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Two of their finest pieces. For a long time, Achilles was my favorite Zep song overall, but I think I overplayed it so I'm a little tired of it now. And Kashmir is just a mindblowing piece, even if it's a little overexposed. It's very close, but in a pinch I have to say Kashmir is the superior piece.
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My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
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darkshade
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: November 19 2005 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 10964 |
Posted: May 18 2012 at 10:45 |
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Achilles' Last Stand by far.
Kashmir is a 4 minute song, and then, it's entirely repeated for another 4 minute song. I hate Kashmir. |
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irrelevant
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 07 2010 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 13382 |
Posted: May 18 2012 at 11:06 |
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Achilles!
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HarbouringTheSoul
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 21 2010 Status: Offline Points: 1199 |
Posted: May 18 2012 at 11:27 |
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Achilles Last Stand might be their best song (although stuck on one of their worst albums), and I prefer it over the also great Kashmir. Saying that Kashmir is overlong isn't the whole story. Achilles is also a normal-length song drawn out into an "epic". The real question is: Why doesn't Achilles feel overlong despite being overlong?
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darkshade
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: November 19 2005 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 10964 |
Posted: May 18 2012 at 11:34 |
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It's a much more well written song than Kashmir. Also, Kasmir is slower, so that may add to the overlong feeling.
Kashmir literally repeats the first 4 minutes, whereas Achilles' does not do something so blatant. There are different things that happen. |
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 10213 |
Posted: May 18 2012 at 11:51 |
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For me, Kashmir is the best tune what Led Zep ever made.. |
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dreadpirateroberts
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2011 Location: AU Status: Offline Points: 952 |
Posted: May 18 2012 at 12:06 |
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Achilles' Last Stand - action packed, the layered approach that JP was so good at is on full display here.
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We are men of action. Lies do not become us.
JazzMusicArchives. |
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011 Location: Los Angeles, CA Status: Offline Points: 10970 |
Posted: May 18 2012 at 12:18 |
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Kashmir. The Zeps going Mid-Eastern? And it works? Cool !
Achilles' Last Stand? I must say that the intro to the song is legenwait for it .... ... dary. But the main body of the song is really tedious. They run a very limited set of ideas across the span of 10 minutes. Christ. But the foreign power of Kashmir just barely gets tiresome compared to Achilles. Voted for Kashmir.
Edited by Dayvenkirq - May 18 2012 at 12:20 |
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 18 2008 Location: Anna Calvi Status: Offline Points: 22989 |
Posted: May 19 2012 at 00:34 |
In fact it's less than that - it's a 20 seconds bit that keeps being repeated. Page himself said this in an interview bit I streamed years ago on their official website, and he plays the the on the acoustic guitar to prove his point. Kashmir has though Plant's best lyrics (or my favourite, at least), and it's very evocative. But I would still go for Achilles'. |
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011 Location: Los Angeles, CA Status: Offline Points: 10970 |
Posted: May 19 2012 at 00:52 |
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^ 20 seconds is a bit of a stretch ... or, should I say, a bit of a compression. There have to be at least four different musical ideas on it, ... and Achilles suffers the same problem.
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 18 2008 Location: Anna Calvi Status: Offline Points: 22989 |
Posted: May 19 2012 at 01:32 |
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^ of course. But most musicians will narrow it down to the main theme when they're asked what a certain piece essentially is. On Kashmir they do build a bit on it, but much less than what they normally did - which makes it so special in the Zepp cannon, too (IMO).
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Fox On The Rocks
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 10 2011 Location: Toronto, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5012 |
Posted: May 19 2012 at 11:52 |
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Achilles by far. Kashmir bores me most of the time. Achilles is an exciting, daring, epic piece of music - one of my favourites from Zep.
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 12665 |
Posted: May 19 2012 at 17:15 |
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Kashmir. I love both songs, but I think Kashmir has more of a sweep and grandeur. Great drums on Achilles though.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12601 |
Posted: May 20 2012 at 21:11 |
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Two of my favourite Zeppeling songs, along with Stairway to Heaven, and No Quarter. Somehow I feel like voting for Achilles, but I could just as well have voted the other way.
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12601 |
Posted: May 20 2012 at 21:14 |
Perhaps it would be interesting for you to hear the live version presented by Jimmy Page and Robert Plant on their "Unledded, No Quarter" album (some sort of "Unplugged"), that one doesn't repeat the main melody so much. As a matter of fact, it begins very quietley for a few minutes, only with the vocals and soft instruments, and then starts with the main melody, and so on. |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 64339 |
Posted: May 20 2012 at 21:41 |
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What's amazing is that they actually played ALS in concert almost every night on the '77 tour (and again in '79 for Knebworth I think). Though it often was a mess, they had the balls to perform such a difficult, physically demanding (I worked the piece out and performed it once with a band, it's a killer) and lengthy piece in front of huge audiences is a testament to their courage and skill as a band.
Hard choice, it's a matter of musical taste. I'll vote with Achilles. |
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Led Zeppelin - Kashmir vs Achilles' Last Stand
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darkshade wrote: