Rap influenced by prog?

On a related front, Africa Bambaataa is often credited with creating the first electro/hip hop track when he released 'Planet Rock' (released in 1982) which sampled music from Kraftwerk's Trans Europe Express (released in 1977).

On reflection, the joining of two seemingly disparate styles is often what generates completely new genres (prog has such a fusion to thank for it's own existence). A stoke of genius on Africa Bambaataa's part IMO.

Tony wrote: Thank you Progreviews for bringing some intelligence to this thread...

I second that.

progreviews wrote: There is an unfortunate tendency for prog fans to judge rap based on the stuff that they hear on the radio, which is obviously NOT the best the genre has to offer. Before you go and condemn the whole genre at least make the effort to seek out the good stuff. If you don't like it fine, but please don't judge it all based on the most mainstream stuff! Anyways, there is a small bit of prog/rap crossover - the most obvious of which is the Faust vs. Dälek album called Derbe Respect Alder - which, yes, is a collaboration between Krautrock legends Faust and a hip-hop artist, Dälek. Dälek himself has released some great albums too - his latest Absence is nothing if not avant-garde. Other favorite hip-hop artists of mine, on the more experimental side, are Cannibal Ox and Anti-Pop Consortium. Equally interestingly, there is a lot of free jazz/rap crossover going on these days. The best of these is a collaboration the aformentioned Anti-Pop Consortium did with free-jazz pianist Matthew Shipp, called (logically enough) Antipop vs. Matthew Shipp. Great stuff, combining challenging jazz with stream-of-consciousness rapping. Shipp has also collaborated with some hip-hoppy electronica producers on albums like Nu Bop and Equilibrium, and enlisted hip-hop producers El-P and Beans (formerly of Anti-Pop) in further collaborations. Really fascinating ground is being explored here, and it'd be a shame to write it off just because it's experimental in a different way that we're used to.

For those few who are actually interested, since this thread originally started I've posted reviews on my website, Ground & Sky, of some of the albums I mentioned in my first post. The last two don't necessarily have much to do with hip-hop, actually; Nu Bop is more a jazz/electronica collaboration while El-P is a hip-hop producer but on High Water he basically turns purely to an interesting, accessible kind of avant-jazz. I'm linking to them anyway since I mention them in my original post.

Dälek - Absence
Faust vs. Dälek - Derbe Respect, Alder
Anti-Pop Consortium - Anti-Pop vs. Matthew Shipp
Matthew Shipp - Nu Bop
El-P - High Water

Kord wrote: I could seem close-minded, but rap and prog are two different things....at first prog is a genre of music, while rap is not music.....

Gee, you're right, that does seem terribly closed-minded (not least from someone actually having a favorite Rainbow album while slamming The Cure).


Edited by Teaflax - June 18 2006 at 08:37

C'mon guys, are you seriously as close-minded as you seem right now? (This is not aimed at the ones who are trying to defend the genre)

You may not like rap music, and you don't have to, but at least acknowledge it's a valid music genre. I'm not the biggest fan either, but this is just ridiculous.

On a side note, I've been listening to Don Johnson Big Band 's (A Finnish rap ensemble) debut a lot lately. It might be a bit far-fetched to say they're influenced by prog, but who knows? I've seen them state Tom Waits, Nick Drake etc. as influences, so the world is much smaller than most of you seem to think.

They all play real instruments, you can even hear flute, saxophone and keyboard (sounded like Hammond!) solos on their debut! Their lyrics discuss real topics, not the stuff you hear on MTV. It's certainly not my favorite album, but if what they do isn't music, then I don't know what is.

^^ 

RycheMan wrote: The Cure are`nt anywhere near the same league as Rainbow (Dio Era)` Robert Smith whines, while Ronnie James Dio is regarded as one of rocks best vocalists. Add Blackmore and Cozy Powell and you have one of the best line ups of all time.

Skill ain't all - innovation counts for a lot. Rainbow couldn't innovate themselves out of a wet paper bag with a map, a compass and a guide.

The Cure blazed their own trail and were a tremendous influence on Post-Punk and eventually spawning the admittedly often dire Goth movement. Rainbow were just another Rock n' Roll band in an near-endless sea of Rock n' Roll bands.

Dälek's album Absence strikes me as being more or less a noisy post-rock record with rapping over it. The melodic sensibilities are totally different to rap music that actually makes it onto the charts, and though not similar to 70s-style prog rock it would be likely to appeal to those here who lean more towards the alternative/post-rock/"avant-garde" groups on the archives.

Then of course there's the sample of Gentle Giant used in Madvillain's album Madvillainy, which I recall resulted in a big thread on this forum in reaction. Though the rhythm-oriented sensibilities in the song remained intact, it did demonstrate that there were people making rap music who were at least interested in prog/psych.

Edited by Hector Gilbert - June 18 2006 at 16:12