Social Democrats Thread #1

Edited by Ancient Tree - June 22 2012 at 03:02

Originally posted by Slartibartfast I probably fit.  What's your definition?  Do you know who Bernie Sanders is?

Edited by Ancient Tree - June 22 2012 at 06:28

In US politics socialism is often thrown around as a slur.  Sanders is an independent senator but a social democrat from the US perspective.

The Almanac of American Politics has called Sanders a "practical" and "successful legislator." He has focused on the shrinking middle class and widening income gap in America that is greater than at any time since the Great Depression. Other priorities include reversing global warming, universal health care, fair trade policies, supporting veterans and preserving family farms. He serves on five Senate committees: Budget; Veterans; Energy; Environment; and Health, Education, Labor and Pensions.


Edited by Slartibartfast - June 22 2012 at 06:42

It pains me to say this, but the UK party that seems to be the closest to what I consider to be socially democratic is the Green Party...

Alarmingly this is called Thread #1

Originally posted by lazland Originally posted by Ancient Tree Originally posted by Slartibartfast I probably fit.  What's your definition?  Do you know who Bernie Sanders is? well im from EU and i dont know much about USA representatives,but thanks i will look a little about Sanders,im a member of social democrats party in my countrie,im also active in PES(Party of EU Socialists) http://www.pes.eu/  I'm also studying Karl Kautsky,And Leon Trotsky   Not sure of the relevance of Kautsky & Trotsky, both of whom were revolutionaries, and whose modern day followers have a deep and lasting disdain for social democrats.   I am a member of the Welsh nationalist party, Plaid Cymru, which, in recent years, has moved very much to a left wing party.   I dislike most of the major social democratic parties, actually, especially the British Labour Party, which is about as far away from its roots as it is possible to get these days. It, and most of its European counterparts, have become part of a massive centralised establishment, with crushing impact upon the very working people they were designed to protect and nurture.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with any of this from an idealogical perspective, but the Labour Party in the UK during Thatcher's reign had made itself practically unelectable for the British public. For me, Neil Kinnock was the politician who stopped the rot and became the architect for Tony Blair's subsequent term in office. Yes, you are right Steve: any mention of the bete noir socialism was airbrushed out of their manifesto and they became, to all intents and purposes, a Social Democratic party no different to the erstwhile Lib Dems or their equivalents in mainland Europe. Had the Labour Paty not done so, they would have become irretrievably marginalised as the so-called loony left etc. Love her or loathe her, Margaret Thatcher conspired to get traditional hardcore Labour voters to vote Tory and there is no political leader in living memory who has engineered such a fundamental change in the perception of the electorate.
(Fighting hard to avoid the Prog turncoats sold out pop charlatans  thang y'all) but there is a symmetry with these developments and that of Prog in general i.e. both Socialism and Prog in their formal traditional sense are now quaint anachronisms and can be considered 'dead in the water' -  music and life goes on and we all have to accede to the reality that the aesthetic idealism we craved and celebrated in the 70's has been supplanted by a pragmatic wish for new music that obeys the market forces that govern our current listening climate. Personally, at 50 years old I am probably too old to follow this path but it's real and it's happening NOW

Re the independence reference, I cannot speak for Wales but for Scotland, the credibility of our autonomy/stand-alone status appears to rest upon the rest of the world becoming addicted to shortbread, whisky and porridge OR Westminster ceding royalties to a Scottish parliament for North-sea Oil and gas.



Edited by ExittheLemming - June 22 2012 at 08:40

I'm not a Social Democrat, but I fully plan on trolling this thread so I may as well check in now. 

Originally posted by Ancient Tree Originally posted by Slartibartfast I probably fit.  What's your definition?  Do you know who Bernie Sanders is? well im from EU and i dont know much about USA representatives,but thanks i will look a little about Sanders,im a member of social democrats party in my countrie,im also active in PES(Party of EU Socialists) http://www.pes.eu/  I'm also studying Karl Kautsky,And Leon Trotsky

I am what is intimidatingly called an Ortho-Trotskyist and I also read Trotsky and Kautsky, but am surprised to hear a Social Democrat is reading them. Besides being members of Social Democratic parties at an entirely different stage of its development, there is little correlation between Trotsky, Kautsky and Social Democracy today.

The forefather of modern Social Democracy is Eduard Bernstein, especially his book, Evolutionary Socialism, which was attacked by Kautsky, Rosa Luxembourg, Lenin and Trotsky.

I agree with another comment above that said Social Democracy is a form of capitalist politics. This is quite accurate. There is nothing differentiating the Social Democratic parties from any other capitalist party.

It is important to keep reading Marxist work, and this will become more clear. It is critical to keep in mind that Social Democracy started out as a force against capitalism, but evolved into a prop for capitalism by WW1.

Systems have to adapt to people and cultures, not the other way around. 

Originally posted by Snow Dog Alarmingly this is called Thread #1

Why is that alarming Snowie?  The Libertarians are on their third.