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A good proggy bass guitar!

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infocat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote infocat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2013 at 22:44
Simple (?) question for you bassy's out there...  the necks on bass guitars seem to be longer than those on regular guitars.  Why?  (In layman's terms, please!)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2013 at 21:38
OK, I've been playing bass since I was about 16...I'm 57, so that's uh, 40 years?

I've met Squire, Percy Jones, damn near everybody over the years.  Bass parts in prog music tend to involve rapidity, key changes, lots of movement up & down the neck....the signature basses also tend to sound "punchier" (more mid-range) than the thumpier basses of the '60s Mo-Town funk sound for example. 

Keys include:

a) easy playing bass - I have a 1973 Rick 4001, it's an excellent instrument, but it is also a full-scale beast, so I'm not as proficient on this as I am on shorter scale instruments like the Gibson Triumph (my main Prog bass), Guild JS-2 and others.  Squire played a fretless Guild JS-2 on "The Remembering" from TFTO, it is a fine instrument. 

Figure out your hand size by playing several....you own the Gibson SG bass, which is short-scale, so that may be what you want to focus on. 

b) strings - the signature prog-bass sound is generated from classic roundwound strings.  Many players (including myself) swear by Roto-Sound, but other strings can give you a similar, bright sound for less money.  I tend to play lighter string gauges as I get older, they are easier to press down and bend. 

c) manufacturer - as noted, the Rick is heavily used in prog, almost to the point of caricature!  Squire, Camp, Bennett and Strater all played one.  Other popular basses include the Fender Precision (John Wetton), Fender Jazz (Geddy Lee, Greg Lake), Music Man (Tony Levin) and various custom models (Percy Jones).   Note the fretless bass I'm playing in my icon....that's a Hugh Manson custom, similar to the bass used by John Paul Jones.  Manson makes guitars for Matthew Bellamy, Martin Barre & is the tech to Steve Howe, so seek out a local builder & see if you can make a deal!  

d) style - I play with both fingers and plectrum, but prefer to use a pick for speed, sound and technique such as "tremelo picking" (which emulates a tympani, listen to Squire on "The Remembering").  Sometimes I switch within a song, but I usually use a pick for its precision and clarity of sound. 

Here, this is mine!  No matter what, just play and have a blast!  There are no shortages of excellent instruments these days, and the Korean models today are nearly as good as Japanese guitars years back.  




Edited by cstack3 - April 08 2013 at 21:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sturoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2013 at 18:11
The Rick-o-Sound option has been around since the early 60s, Chris Squire did not invent it.

The original OP merely wanted advice on what instrument(s) would do well for the range of tones Progressive rock can demand.


Edited by sturoc - April 08 2013 at 18:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2013 at 15:57
Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

Rickenbackers sound great, but their awful to play - at least for me. I think Sturoc more or less nailed the issue - get a bass that feels good for you, and add the prog yourself.
...
 
I'm wondering if folks are getting scattered on a Rickey ... what made Squire famous on them was not the bass itself ... it might have helped ... but the fact that he had some special wiring done on his bass that made things rather interesting ... and according to him and "Bass Player" when he was on, it was the start of "stereo" pickups ... he wanted the pick ups split so he could have them do different things on them! This will give the impression that the guitar is the trick, and it is not at all.
 
It's the person behind it ... plain and simple ... soyou gonna tell me that Chris can not make a cheapie Fender Squier not sound good? ... you don't know Chris!
 
And the so called "proggy bass" is really sad of a question ... and pretty soon folks will be asking for a good "proggy guitar" ... like the Fender Telecaster can not play anything out there ... sorry ... didn't mean to blow up the thread, but that's really scary ... spend your money on a Rickey and get disappointed because you don't sound like Chris! Because you did not find out why!


Edited by moshkito - April 07 2013 at 16:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote synthguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2013 at 12:04
For me Two basses come to mind the Rickenbacker 4001/4003 and the Fender Jazz Bass. Someone posted earlier about the mexican made jazz basses. I have one and it's awesome, granted I needed to tweak the set up on the thing, intonation/action, but if you're a hands on kind of guy/girl you can do it yourself. Mine plays very well now.
Wearing feelings on our faces when our faces took a rest...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angelo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2013 at 05:29
I guess the OP should know by now, it's been 6 months....

@progbethyname: spot on, provided that you add that this (apart from the Rick reference) should be irrespective of the bass that is being used.


Edited by Angelo - January 20 2013 at 05:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sturoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2012 at 00:43
again: Remember Its not how many notes you play, but what you leave out.

and yes Far Meadow, that B-301 was headstock heavy for sure !

OP, Let us know what you ever did get ?


Edited by sturoc - April 10 2013 at 16:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2012 at 22:06
Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

I think you missed the point of this topic.... apart from that, you're right.


You are right. I did. Allow myself to fix this.

If I may elaborate more keenly on how a bass should sound with in a progressive band it should

1) never sound like background filler
2) should be heard!! Most bass is muffled where guitar and drums take over. Bass should be heard loud and clear. The more recent Neo prog albums, IQ's DARK MATTER JOWITT is heard wonderfully and clearly and uses a Rickenbacker nicely on the track HARVEST OF SOULS. It's how bass should be!!

3) Lastly, should be distinguished. Bass should not sound repetitive or prosaic. John Myung of Dream Theater did a wonderful job on the latest DT record, A DRAMATIC TURN OF EVENTS. I could hear him loud and clear and his note composition was sublime. Very well done
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angelo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2012 at 06:03
I think you missed the point of this topic.... apart from that, you're right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2012 at 09:24
ALBERTO RIGONI---THREE WISE MONKEYS

JOEY VERA---CIRCLES

JON JOWITT-- the entire DARK MATTER album from IQ

Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheFarMeadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2012 at 16:50
Ah the ole B301 - i had one once - sounded and played lovely, but I found it a bit unbalanced towards the neck. 

I agree it's all about technique - it's how you make the strings work. A good articulate bass rig is also important for live work. Playing is about comfort and efficiency. I use a couple of Yamaha TRBII 5 strings about 10 year old Japanese ones, with and without frets. Comfortable, not too heavy, play and sound great. Yamaha know how to deliver great value and consistency - worth checking out.

The TRBs have a 35" scale. Don't know if that makes a significant difference to string tension?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angelo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2012 at 06:51
Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

Rickenbackers sound great, but their awful to play - at least for me. I think Sturoc more or less nailed the issue - get a bass that feels good for you, and add the prog yourself.

For me, it's prog and blues all the way with either of these four beauties: Godin A4 fretless, Fender Jazz, Ibanez SR3005 Prestige and a Gretsch Broadkaster.
I have to admit that I replaced the Godin's piezo with a Hanson Chisonic, and the jazz has Hanson JSonics replacing the Fender pick ups. Sometimes changing a part is sufficient to make an 'ok'  bass into a 'yes!' bass.

I went a bit further than that. I got rid of the Godin altogether, and replaced it with a self assembled bass: Allparts fretless neck, ebony on maple with a black headstock, a Warmoth Z body in Black Korina, with a Black Korina top, Nordstrand Vintage P/J pickups, a Hipshot Vintage bridge and Schaller light tuners. See my avatar for the result... and I can assure you it sounds as good as it looks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2012 at 09:16
For the bassist on a budget, Mexican made Fenders can sound and play very good. There is a lot of variance from the factory so you'll need to play a bunch of them to find a good one. The key to look for on any bolt on necked instrument, guitar or bass, is the tightness of the neck joint and the resonance. If a guitar or bass is very resonant, you will feel it in your chest when you play it. Don't worry too much about electronics, you can replace those later. The resonance is not something that can be helped very much by hardware upgrades.
 
A good way to compare similar instruments is to pluck the D string (or the B string on guitars) as they are hanging on the wall then then feel the body of the guitar on the lower right side, near the controls. More resonants instruments will vibrate more and you can feel it. This will let you know which ones to try out and which ones to dismiss outright.


Edited by Meta - August 23 2012 at 09:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zerothehero76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2012 at 01:30
At the present moment, I'm playing very often a mexican Fender Jazz Classic 70's. Adding some drive (I use tech 21 VT Bass) , it has the "right growl". It is comfortable and it is also capable of quite "warm" sounds. And doesn't cost too much.
In this recording I used a Squier Vintage Modified Fretless, a Musicman stingray (the harmonics part) and the classic 70's (for the solo): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4iDRtbESCY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The_Jester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2012 at 09:53
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Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

Rickenbackers sound great, but their awful to play - at least for me. I think Sturoc more or less nailed the issue - get a bass that feels good for you, and add the prog yourself.

For me, it's prog and blues all the way with either of these four beauties: Godin A4 fretless, Fender Jazz, Ibanez SR3005 Prestige and a Gretsch Broadkaster.
I have to admit that I replaced the Godin's piezo with a Hanson Chisonic, and the jazz has Hanson JSonics replacing the Fender pick ups. Sometimes changing a part is sufficient to make an 'ok'  bass into a 'yes!' bass.
 
Or into a 'Yes' bass! (bad word play Cool)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angelo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2012 at 15:28
Rickenbackers sound great, but their awful to play - at least for me. I think Sturoc more or less nailed the issue - get a bass that feels good for you, and add the prog yourself.

For me, it's prog and blues all the way with either of these four beauties: Godin A4 fretless, Fender Jazz, Ibanez SR3005 Prestige and a Gretsch Broadkaster.
I have to admit that I replaced the Godin's piezo with a Hanson Chisonic, and the jazz has Hanson JSonics replacing the Fender pick ups. Sometimes changing a part is sufficient to make an 'ok'  bass into a 'yes!' bass.
ISKC Rock Radio
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Josh18293 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2012 at 13:11
R
I
C
K
E
N
B
A
C
K
E
R

Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sturoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2012 at 11:09
I had a B-301 with Dimarzio Split-P pickup in it.
Bought it new early 80s immediately did the retrofit.
Great bass a little neck heavy but long scale.
Awesome tone very progressive sound.
They now command a high price though, if you can find one .
I rarely used a pick and either way it sounded very close to a Rick !

Ahhh, the old days..



Edited by sturoc - July 30 2012 at 11:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreakFlagRecordings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2012 at 06:48
Guild B301 looks class. Unfortunately I've never played one myself. Someday!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sturoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2012 at 17:51
Find the bass that :
Is comfortable for your hands even after playing for an hour or so.
Sounds the way you want it to sound -or close to it. Adding f/x and tailoring your tone will be an interesting challenge unless you love it right from the beginning.
Looks are only as important as you make it and unless your playing out should only matter to you.
Keep it affordable for you, unless you absolutely fall in love 100% with it.
 
A reminder that the other half of this choice is also the amp you 'll be using, be aware what may sound great in the store thru a different amp setup may not be what your hearing once you get it home.

There are alot of great people making great basses, some unknown for the most part. Don't be put off by a supposedly unheard of name...remember: see above.



Edited by sturoc - July 11 2012 at 17:53
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