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Other than location, what makes "Canterbury"

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Smurph View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Smurph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Other than location, what makes "Canterbury"
    Posted: July 09 2012 at 10:55
I never got into the Canterbury scene genre on this site.
 
But I have finally listened to Khan. Wow! What a band! They are great. I never liked Canterbury before because everything I had heard at that point was kinda like jazz but it never took such an interesting turn as this band!
 
But what makes an artist Canterbury other than the location? Because Khan is symphonic to me. Super symphonic. In fact, I find some of this album to be more symphonic than a lot of "symphonic" groups.
 
 
And are there other Canterbury bands that are this heavy or heavier and more symphonic in nature? Because when it comes to music before 1980, I tend to prefer the heaviest RPI bands and the most complicated weird stuff. Il Balletto, Banco, Semiramis, Van Der Graaf, etc. But hearing this album from Khan makes me feel like I'm missing out on a genre of REALLY good music- and I don't know where to start.
 
(I am kinda doing a genre appreciation, asking for reccomendations, and generating a discussion, so I'm assuming this is ok to go in the general thread.)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tapfret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2012 at 11:07
Canterbury, more so than the other regional sub-genres krautrock an RPI, has closer familial ties to one another. At least that's my take on it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote friso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2012 at 12:54
Canterbury(related) music often has
- fast riff-based repititive forms
- gentle distorted organ sounds
- lack of guitardominance
- typical English accent vocals that are gentle and slightly sterile
- jazz influences in chords and chordprogressions and drums
- humor and often lack of in depth song-writing
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Post Options Post Options   Quote friso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2012 at 12:57
Great, you discoverd Kahn. Also one of my favorites! Kahn is often seen as Canterbury act because of the involvement of Steve Hillage (Arzachel, Gong) and Dave Stewerd (Egg, National Health, Hatfield and the North). Besides that 'Space Shanty' has little real Canterbury features, though jazz influences and some riff-based parts do appear.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2012 at 13:05
I'm not much help, as I'm only familiar with Soft Machine, and a couple of jazz-fusion bands that have some Canterbury influence in their sound, such as Planeta Imaginario
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Post Options Post Options   Quote irrelevant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2012 at 15:02
Originally posted by friso

often lack of in depth song-writing

Whaa??? Ok maybe if you're basing that off of Caravan (who I love btw), but in terms of straight-up pop-rock they're quite in-depth, songwriting wise.

I can't quite put into words the Canterbury Scene style. But it is most definitely awesome! 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2012 at 15:15
I think "Canterbury" mainly relates to the family of bands/solo artists(and there are many) that grew out of Caravan and Soft Machine.  That alone covers a lot of stylistic territory,  It also has come to relate to bands which have an obvious stylistic similarity to the more high-profile original Canterbury bands. For example, The Muffins (from the USA) were similar to Hatfield & the North in their early days and Henry Cow in their later days, and they're considered "Canterbury" on PA.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2012 at 15:37
The Canterbury "Scene" was so named owing to a group of acts that grew out of the English region/town of the same name, but all of which shared a commonality in their approach and sound.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Smurph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2012 at 15:40
Ok- so really stylistically they could probably fit under one of the other genres as well, but because they share such a commonality that it's easier for organization's sake to put them under Canterbury?
 
I was really looking for other bands similar to Khan as well within the scene. Because up until that point I had not heard such a heavy Canterbury album. Basically... what's the heaviest dang Canterbury album? Ha
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Post Options Post Options   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2012 at 15:52
Originally posted by Smurph

Ok- so really stylistically they could probably fit under one of the other genres as well, but because they share such a commonality that it's easier for organization's sake to put them under Canterbury?
Bingo. In a nutshell.
 
Originally posted by Smurph

I was really looking for other bands similar to Khan as well within the scene. Because up until that point I had not heard such a heavy Canterbury album. Basically... what's the heaviest dang Canterbury album? Ha
Steve Hillage's "Fish Rising" and Gong's "You" are the first to come to mind.  Both (as well as the Khan album)  feature Steve Hillage on lead guitar, and all three are fairly dark and heavy (actually, the Gong album gets off to a silly start, but after the first couple of minutes, it's a dark voyage par excellence).


Edited by HolyMoly - July 09 2012 at 15:54
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Smurph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2012 at 16:01
^Steve. You are always the shizz. Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2012 at 17:06
Its good music......just press play and be done with it
Big smile
       
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Post Options Post Options   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2012 at 18:20
Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Lima96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2012 at 21:00
Originally posted by Smurph

I never got into the Canterbury scene genre on this site.

(...)

And are there other Canterbury bands that are this heavy or heavier and more symphonic in nature? Because when it comes to music before 1980, I tend to prefer the heaviest RPI bands and the most complicated weird stuff. Il Balletto, Banco, Semiramis, Van Der Graaf, etc. But hearing this album from Khan makes me feel like I'm missing out on a genre of REALLY good music- and I don't know where to start.

You are going to love the sh*t out of National Health, specially their second album 'Of Queues And Cures'. Seriously Big smile




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Post Options Post Options   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2012 at 21:19
"Is it numinousness, numinescence, or numinosity?  It's like luminous.......And when a thing is numinous it exudes an air of energy, of mystery, of sanctity.... it appears CHARGED."

- spoken bit in the middle of "Squarer for Maud" (National Health, above)


Edited by HolyMoly - July 09 2012 at 21:19
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2012 at 22:03
I've noticed over the years, the relationship of inverted chord voicings repeated and used between Soft Machine, Hatfield and the North, Gong, National Health, and even the Muffins, which for me identifies something musical in Canterbury. I've had difficulties in spotting the same bass lines and chord voicings in the music of many other jazz/fusion units, although I have (in the past) heard them phrased that way in the music of Frank Zappa. In some cases the harmony structure can be identified in Canterbury music and is in a world of it's own. Whether or not it may be written by Dave Stewart or Robert Wyatt , it has the same flow and some of the same chord progressions being reversed or switched around. It's a different style that I do not hear in the music of Weather Report and many others. I often assume that the idea of sound and style was original and created by the English musicians. Alan Gowen and the bassist from EGG ...forgive me..I always forget his name..but they all have this unique concept of writing.

Edited by TODDLER - July 09 2012 at 22:21
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2012 at 22:18
"Two Rainbows Daily" is a stripped down version (so to speak), of the chord formulas used in some of the more complex Canterbury music. It's a good example or could even be a study for musicians to begin somewhere and understanding where the chords go. Where the harmony travels and so on. Actually, Caravan and Soft Machine can train your ear to it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Smurph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2012 at 22:20
Wow. I'm really enjoying all the suggestions. I'm really happy I decided to step into this genre!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2012 at 22:27
I remember the first time I heard Camel's "Rain Dances" and thought it was (at the time), a more modern approach to what had made itself musicially present in Canterbury music up to that point in time. Of course they had Richard Sinclair on board which explains a lot, but again..it was almost the same situation when Bruford hired Dave Stewart. If you observe, you may hear some of those familiar chord voicings from the Canterbury scene on the late 70's Bruford releases.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2012 at 22:40
What I really found to be remarkable was that the 3 part harmony of the Northettes sounded like it derived from earlier harmony structure utilized on instruments within Caravan's music or Soft Machine. Some people in the past (including yours truly), have made the simple observation that Gentle Giant focused on the concept of counterpoint. By learning and playing J.S. Bach's "Bouree In Eminor, you could almost figure out any Gentle Giant tune by ear...but, this was different. I never could fully connect an influence for the Canterbury inverted chord voicings and harmony ...so perhaps it was truly an original idea or maybe the influence is well hidden. It's like writing a secret code or message with lemon juice and cannot be revealed until it is held under a candle. LOL!
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