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Why does Glass Hammer get Hammered here?

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Mr. Maestro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mr. Maestro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why does Glass Hammer get Hammered here?
    Posted: July 11 2012 at 23:57
I happen to really like Glass Hammer, especially If.  I frankly don't care how "original" they sound - it's still good music (to my ears at least), so I enjoy it.  It really irks me to see people complaining about GH solely because they're "derivative" or "unorginal" without actually addressing the quality of the music (which is quite high, in my opinion).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Anthony H. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2012 at 23:59
Originally posted by Mr. Maestro

I frankly don't care how "original" they sound - it's still good music (to my ears at least), so I enjoy it.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2012 at 01:14
Originally posted by Mr. Maestro

I happen to really like Glass Hammer, especially If.  I frankly don't care how "original" they sound - it's still good music (to my ears at least), so I enjoy it.  It really irks me to see people complaining about GH solely because they're "derivative" or "unorginal" without actually addressing the quality of the music (which is quite high, in my opinion).
I must admit that if I don't like something (and I don't like IF at all) then I tend to dwell on the originality aspect. BUT you have a good point that good music is just good music regardless of whether its a 'copy' or not. For me IF is just too slow paced. I love Fred when he plays like Emerson with those fast keyboard runs most notably on Chronomotree. So as long as he's copying my favourites and doing his take on Tarkus rather than Tales Of Topographic Oceans then I'm happyTongue

Edited by richardh - July 12 2012 at 01:15
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tamijo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2012 at 06:14
Originally posted by dtguitarfan

Originally posted by The Bearded Bard

GOD! You just can't accept that everybody don't share your opinions about music, can you? 

What I can't accept is the trolling.  Look, have you ever read UMUR's reviews?  I've never read anything negative from him.  He can write a 3 star review, and if you didn't look at the stars, you'd think he loved the album because he says nice things.  This is something I am striving to emulate now that I am writing reviews in return for receiving free promos.  I have not yet written a review under 3 stars, and if I got something that I thought I might want to dip to that level or below, I'd tell the guy who sends me the promos that I'm not sure I want to write that one, because I always want to be respectful.  But I don't think that's a sentiment most reviewers agree with - I think a lot of people think it's cool to be insulting, because other people who share their hatred of that music applaud them and tell them how funny they were.
 
You may be right, but then I think you should start by changing this one yourself, as i think some people might get hurt by the unfrindly tone against music they like LOL :
dtguitarfan : "Progressive Metal fans: don't make the same mistake I made! Don't waste your time on this one!" 
 
What im saying is, it makes no sence to have a page like this, if you are not allowed to dislike what you dislike, and love what you love.
It may hurt someones feelings, but its part of the game.
 


Edited by tamijo - July 12 2012 at 06:31
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2012 at 07:33
I'd echo a few thoughts here.  Some people just tend to write off anything considered "derivative".  You'd think they only listen to albums that are 100% original (an impossibility?)  So yes, I think there is definitely an element of conceitand/or superiority.  I differ greatly here.  
 
I have no problem whatsoever with a band who's sound is influenced by another, as in the case of the last couple of albums by GH.  It's where that becomes outright plagiarism that I draw the line.  For me, GH are clearly not guilty on that point.   In any event I'd strongly recommend listening to Lex Rex which is in my top 20 albums of all time.  The Inconsolable Secret and Shadowlands are also excellent although even I have to say they were pretty close to the aforementioned line on the latter with Run Lisette LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Quote javajeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2012 at 07:46
I try to rate bands on their own merit even if they sound like someone else.  The new group Headspace for example has some YES and Queensryche moments in their album I AM ANONYMOUS, but it is excellent.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Smurph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2012 at 07:57

Some of their albums are rated around 4. I mean, they're about that good imo. Deserving of 3 to 4 stars. Just because a band you really enjoy doesn't have half their albums above 4 stars doesn't mean everyone hates them

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Post Options Post Options   Quote infandous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2012 at 09:02
Every review and every rating is an opinion, plain and simple.  I agree though, that you can be negative and still be respectful.

I have tried hard with Glass Hammer, I really have.  Other than their most recent albums, I'd say they had a pretty original sound, even if their influences were often on their sleeve (Kansas, ELP, Yes).  I love Chronomotre, just a fun album with a wacky concept.  The rest though, I just don't find that any of it sticks with me.  I listen to it, and it seems to have everything I love about symphonic prog, but I can't remember a single melody, solo, or vocal after it's done.  So I guess the word there would be "bland" maybe, since they leave no impression on me at all.  I would never say any album of theirs is bad (well, except the first one, which I have) and they are obviously good musicians.  Honestly though, there is nothing I've heard that I could give more than 3 stars to.  Of course, I think we need to remember that 3 stars is still a "good" album, so their average is actually quite good, especially for a symph prog  band not from the 70's.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2012 at 14:34
Originally posted by Guldbamsen

I've never heard anything from them, but I must admit from reading all those reviews talking about how they sound like YES - doesn't exactly make me wet myself. I love YES, but when I want to hear YES, then I pop on Relayer. 

These people maybe wrong though, I know - but there's a good deal of writers whom I respect that mostly describe their music as being very close to the aforementioned band. 

On another note, many a bands featured here on PA have 'low' ratings according to other sites. One of my old favourites, Franco Battiato's debut album Fetus, had a rating below 3 before I reviewed it. Personally I found that to be verging on the offensive, and I don't even pay attention to ratingsLOL
Perhaps you should listen to a few - personally - My fave is Disc 1 of  The Incosolable Secret - Especially track 1 - The maker of crowns - Excellent stuff....Can be very like yes and is very keyboard oriented....
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2012 at 14:45
Originally posted by M27Barney

Originally posted by Guldbamsen

I've never heard anything from them, but I must admit from reading all those reviews talking about how they sound like YES - doesn't exactly make me wet myself. I love YES, but when I want to hear YES, then I pop on Relayer. 

These people maybe wrong though, I know - but there's a good deal of writers whom I respect that mostly describe their music as being very close to the aforementioned band. 

On another note, many a bands featured here on PA have 'low' ratings according to other sites. One of my old favourites, Franco Battiato's debut album Fetus, had a rating below 3 before I reviewed it. Personally I found that to be verging on the offensive, and I don't even pay attention to ratingsLOL
Perhaps you should listen to a few - personally - My fave is Disc 1 of  The Incosolable Secret - Especially track 1 - The maker of crowns - Excellent stuff....Can be very like yes and is very keyboard oriented....
 


Ok, I think I'll try a bit of YouTubing a little later. Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2012 at 14:49
I blame Maxwell.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2012 at 14:53
Originally posted by Smurph

Some of their albums are rated around 4. I mean, they're about that good imo. Deserving of 3 to 4 stars. Just because a band you really enjoy doesn't have half their albums above 4 stars doesn't mean everyone hates them

That's just what I was trying to say earlier.  On paper, the PA community likes Glass Hammer.  Average ratings in the 3.5 -3.75 range are REALLY GOOD.  So not everyone likes them, and those people sometimes say so.  Big whoop.


Edited by HolyMoly - July 12 2012 at 14:54
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Post Options Post Options   Quote aswas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2012 at 15:18
I believe that many people are just not aware of the band Glass Hammer. They are celebrating their 20th Anniversary this year, and have recorded some incredible progressive rock music, over the years. The last 2 CD's "IF" and "Cor Cordium" moves them in a different direction, with the addition of "Jon Davison" as lead vocals.  So what if they sound a little like another band; that is a compliment. The music coming from the new CD's are excellent compositions in progressive rock, just like the CD's before them. They currently are working on a concept album entitled "Perilous." The point is, Glass Hammer is always searching for new avenues to venture down. Believe it, they are even getting better with age. The CD "Lex Rex" recorded years ago, was some of the best progressive rock music ever recorded, and there is much more to come. They chose to be a recording band, concentrating on the quality and engineering of excellent symphonic progressive rock music, in the studio, and that is exactly what GH has done, for the last 20 years.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ambient Hurricanes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2012 at 23:48
Originally posted by javajeff

I try to rate bands on their own merit even if they sound like someone else.

A legitimate approach; many people take the attitude that "we already have Yes (or any of these bands that heavily influence modern proggers), why do we need more copies when we can go listen to CttE or Relayer).  But you could also consider the scenario that if Yes had released ten more classic albums, you would be thrilled and listen to them constantly, so why should you be disappointed with ten albums that (to your ears) sound very similar to Yes?  (I don't know how many albums are in GH's discography, I just picked a nice random one).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2012 at 01:49
Originally posted by aswas

I believe that many people are just not aware of the band Glass Hammer. They are celebrating their 20th Anniversary this year, and have recorded some incredible progressive rock music, over the years. The last 2 CD's "IF" and "Cor Cordium" moves them in a different direction, with the addition of "Jon Davison" as lead vocals.  So what if they sound a little like another band; that is a compliment. The music coming from the new CD's are excellent compositions in progressive rock, just like the CD's before them. They currently are working on a concept album entitled "Perilous." The point is, Glass Hammer is always searching for new avenues to venture down. Believe it, they are even getting better with age. The CD "Lex Rex" recorded years ago, was some of the best progressive rock music ever recorded, and there is much more to come. They chose to be a recording band, concentrating on the quality and engineering of excellent symphonic progressive rock music, in the studio, and that is exactly what GH has done, for the last 20 years.
 
great post . I will persevere with the recent stuff. I think we all get confused when we can't appreciate a certain album and then the integrity of the band seems under question. Glass Hammer are very mindful of the past history of symhonic prog but they are not a clone band thats for sure. However on a pure emotional level I do miss the lime up that included Matt Mendians and Susie B. The DVD's Live At Belmont and Lex Live are so much fun and I find it hard now to get that same sense of fun out of their music... and it bothers me quite frankly.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2012 at 03:06
Originally posted by Roj M30

I'd echo a few thoughts here.  Some people just tend to write off anything considered "derivative".  You'd think they only listen to albums that are 100% original (an impossibility?)  So yes, I think there is definitely an element of conceitand/or superiority.  I differ greatly here.  
 
I have no problem whatsoever with a band who's sound is influenced by another, as in the case of the last couple of albums by GH.  It's where that becomes outright plagiarism that I draw the line.  For me, GH are clearly not guilty on that point.   In any event I'd strongly recommend listening to Lex Rex which is in my top 20 albums of all time.  The Inconsolable Secret and Shadowlands are also excellent although even I have to say they were pretty close to the aforementioned line on the latter with Run Lisette LOL
All music has notes...so all music is basically derivative from the time when "graghish" the austrialopithicus decided to blow through the shell he/she found on the beach and in doing so for 25 minutes - created the first ever avant-garde prog/ math rock epic.......
Play me my song.....Here it comes again.......
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Post Options Post Options   Quote aswas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2012 at 15:24
No way. I thought it was a great album. 3 Cheers is big departure from GH usual recordings, but they had something to say, and they said it, and performed it well. Susie was a big key, with her lead vocals on some of the tracks. But Steve was awesome on his bass, and analog synthesizer, and Fred got to play around not only with his keyboards, but with the guitar and drums throughout the CD. How much fun it would be to play something different for a change. It was a fresh sounding CD, with some downright depressing stories played very well; a story well told. And it rocked in many places also. You have to go back quite a few years to hear them playing the different instruments. Finally, like all GH CD's, the  recording.engineering,and mixing is second to none.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2012 at 02:40
Originally posted by aswas

No way. I thought it was a great album. 3 Cheers is big departure from GH usual recordings, but they had something to say, and they said it, and performed it well. Susie was a big key, with her lead vocals on some of the tracks. But Steve was awesome on his bass, and analog synthesizer, and Fred got to play around not only with his keyboards, but with the guitar and drums throughout the CD. How much fun it would be to play something different for a change. It was a fresh sounding CD, with some downright depressing stories played very well; a story well told. And it rocked in many places also. You have to go back quite a few years to hear them playing the different instruments. Finally, like all GH CD's, the  recording.engineering,and mixing is second to none.
After reading your comments I downloaded Three Cheers For The Broken Hearted. I'm mightily surprised by how good it is considering its average rating on PA (a miserable 2 stars). Actually I love it and would put it alongside Shadowlands and Lex Rex and a little below The Inconsolable Secret. As you say its very different and if anything a little more contemporary sounding. I thought that might have found favour around here but no. Perhaps its a case of them not delivering what is expected (ie slightly retro sounding prog) yet ironically its that retro thing that people moan about.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote javajeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2012 at 08:45
I have noticed that pa members may rate albums on the level of progginess.  A good album that is less proggy may get the negativity hammer.  An example of this is The Decemberists latest album The King is Dead sporting a 2.9 rating.  I think it is an excellent album, easily as good as anything they have done.  However, it has no prog in it.  It is an alternative folk rock album.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2012 at 14:39
I only have Culture Of Ascent and IF.
I find Culture to be an impressively well made album, while I'm listening to it I keep thinking "this is good" all along, but at the end of the day nothing sticks as really great inspired music.
 
I absolutely love IF no matter how Yes-ish it sounds, I find the compositions, arrangements and performance excellent.
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