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Helmut Koellen for Crossover Prog
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presdoug View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 18 2012 at 13:55
 I suggest that the late Helmut Koellen, former musician/singer/songwriter for Symphonic Prog band Triumvirat be submitted as a Crossover Prog artist for his solo artist work in the mid-seventies, after having split from Triumvirat at the end of 1975. Though his life was cut short tragically on May 3rd, 1977, a complete solo album was released posthumously in October of that year in both Germany, and South America, called You Won't See Me. It is produced by Jurgen Fritz, and features Passport musician Dieter Petereit, and drummer Mathias Holtmann, as well as Helmut Koellen on guitar and vocals, and Jurgen Fritz on keys.











Edited by presdoug - August 11 2012 at 15:18
"and what music unites, man should not take apart"--Helmut Koellen                               
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Andy Webb View Drop Down
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Posts: 11622 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Andy Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2012 at 16:44
Sorry, I just can't hear it. It has a sprig of art rock in there, but I'm not sure it's enough for even PR. Obviously he has the connection credentials, but the music doesn't sound like it has a chance with the admins.
You can ask your favorite Special Collab to sponsor him but I don't think he'll go far.
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presdoug View Drop Down
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Posts: 4257 		Post Options Post Options   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2012 at 21:25
I'm sorry that you feel that way.
               I feel strongly that he belongs in the archives. Are you sure that none of the admins. would feel the music is worth it? Well, maybe you are right, but i sure hope you aren't.
"and what music unites, man should not take apart"--Helmut Koellen                               
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Posts: 2104 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ambient Hurricanes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2012 at 23:41
Wait...isn't it the teams, not the admins, who decide what bands are admitted into PA?
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Posts: 9646 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rivertree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2012 at 09:15
prog related and proto prog additions do need the appreciation of the admins, there are no regular teams ...
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Posts: 2104 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ambient Hurricanes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2012 at 09:54
Ah.  I didn't know that.
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presdoug View Drop Down
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Posts: 4257 		Post Options Post Options   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 07 2012 at 17:58
Have the Admins. and the Prog-Related team made a decision about including Helmut Koellen in the archives as solo artist?

Jeesh, guys, he and his music are more "Prog-related" than quite a bit in the Prog Related category already.


Edited by presdoug - August 07 2012 at 17:59
"and what music unites, man should not take apart"--Helmut Koellen                               
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Posts: 11622 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Andy Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 07 2012 at 20:20
I'm not sure if a SC contacted them at all. Try PMing one; I'd say AtomicCrimsonRush or Ivan Melgar (the SCs on the Symphonic team) might be willing to help you out.
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presdoug View Drop Down
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Posts: 4257 		Post Options Post Options   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 07 2012 at 20:47
Originally posted by Andy Webb

I'm not sure if a SC contacted them at all. Try PMing one; I'd say AtomicCrimsonRush or Ivan Melgar (the SCs on the Symphonic team) might be willing to help you out.
Thanks, Andy, i will try your suggestion.
"and what music unites, man should not take apart"--Helmut Koellen                               
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Posts: 12901 		Post Options Post Options   Quote AtomicCrimsonRush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 06:03
Listening to this now. Nice voice for sure and lots of piano on 'Story of my Life'. Love the bassline and organ on 'You Wont See Me'; a great Beatles cover. However it is definitely not symphonic prog so I cannot vote him in to the category I am accountable to, sorry. 

Might I suggest sending this off to the PR team and let them make a decision. I have no say in the Prog Related category but you can send it on and see what the team says.

Thanks for the PM

Prog On
Cheers!
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Posts: 29382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 06:25
^ No he can't Scott - only SCs can nominate artists for PR and they must do the addition if approved.


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Posts: 12901 		Post Options Post Options   Quote AtomicCrimsonRush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 09:29
So mote it be
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Posts: 4257 		Post Options Post Options   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 10:01
Does the Special Collaborator who attempts to nominate someone for Prog Related have to be directly related to the Prog Related team for sure?
   
             Any of you out there know any SCs who are part of the Prog Related team that are Koellen/Triumvirat fans that i might also contact?


Edited by presdoug - August 10 2012 at 10:04
"and what music unites, man should not take apart"--Helmut Koellen                               
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Posts: 29382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 10:37
The PR team is the Admin Team - all details here: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=73146&PID=3942761#3942761 


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presdoug View Drop Down
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Posts: 4257 		Post Options Post Options   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 17:42
^Thanks, Dean, for the above link. I have read through things and understand the process in this case, and what my role is, and is not, in that process.
       I have opened the door to discussion about Helmut Koellen being a Prog Related addition. Not being an SC myself, i have done my part.
          It now takes a Special Collaborator to take the ball, and continue with this and propose Koellen for inclusion with a PM to an Admin.
           At least i understand the special process for Prog Related inclusion now.
"and what music unites, man should not take apart"--Helmut Koellen                               
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Posts: 11575 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 17:59
if you haven't already, perhaps try PMing Ivan Melgar M of the symphonic team to see if he'd propose Koellen for Prog Related.  At  least he knows Triumvirat well.  His reviews:

5 starsTRIUMVIRAT Illusions On A Double Dimple | review
4 starsTRIUMVIRAT Mediterranean Tales | review
4 starsTRIUMVIRAT Old Loves Die Hard | review
3 starsTRIUMVIRAT Pompeii | review
4 starsTRIUMVIRAT Spartacus | review


Edited by Logan - August 10 2012 at 18:02
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presdoug View Drop Down
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Posts: 4257 		Post Options Post Options   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 18:04
Originally posted by Logan

if you haven't already, perhaps try PMing Ivan Melgar M of the symphonic team to see if he'd propose Koellen for Prog Related.  At  least he knows Triumvirat well.  His reviews:

5 starsTRIUMVIRAT Illusions On A Double Dimple | review
4 starsTRIUMVIRAT Mediterranean Tales | review
4 starsTRIUMVIRAT Old Loves Die Hard | review
3 starsTRIUMVIRAT Pompeii | review
4 starsTRIUMVIRAT Spartacus | review
I did just that, and Ivan replied that Helmut Koellen's solo music has nothing to do with prog, which i steadfastly disagree with, and he has refused to help me.


Edited by presdoug - August 10 2012 at 18:09
"and what music unites, man should not take apart"--Helmut Koellen                               
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Posts: 11575 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 18:16
Originally posted by presdoug

Originally posted by Logan

if you haven't already, perhaps try PMing Ivan Melgar M of the symphonic team to see if he'd propose Koellen for Prog Related.  At  least he knows Triumvirat well.  His reviews:

5 starsTRIUMVIRAT Illusions On A Double Dimple | review
4 starsTRIUMVIRAT Mediterranean Tales | review
4 starsTRIUMVIRAT Old Loves Die Hard | review
3 starsTRIUMVIRAT Pompeii | review
4 starsTRIUMVIRAT Spartacus | review
I did just that, and Ivan replied that Helmut Koellen's solo music has nothing to do with prog, which i steadfastly disagree with, and he has refused to help me.


Oh... Well, unless it's something he strongly felt should be in, I wouldn't expect him to want to help (he's opposed to the addition).  Although I'm more inclusive than Ivan typically, I think, and think that more music has a relation to Prog than him (prog by degree), I'm not sure if I would actively support Koellen based on those clips.  It does have some art rock credentials, and I like it, and it can be likened to music we already have in a prog categories 9and in prog related).  Really, though, I wouldn't want to comment on its credentials without hearing the whole album, and barely knowing Triumvirat, I wouldn't be a good one to propose it to admin, anyway.  Prog Related can be a really difficult category to get into, anyway.  There are quite a few artists I'd like to see included -- especially Ennio Morricone, but I wouldn't expect it.


Edited by Logan - August 10 2012 at 18:17
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presdoug View Drop Down
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Posts: 4257 		Post Options Post Options   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 18:26
^Thanks for your response and feedback, Logan. Yeah, Prog Related is a difficult category to deal with and agree on, and i can see why.
            Yes, some dismiss Helmut's solo effort as mainstream, while some, like cstack3 here on the archives, think quite highly of it's prog relationship.
                I have always felt that Mr. Koellen's solo album is sort of prog meets mainstream, it is like he still had one foot in prog, and one foot somewhere more mainstream.
               At any rate, his solo effort is deeply moving for me personally.
"and what music unites, man should not take apart"--Helmut Koellen                               
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Posts: 5868 		Post Options Post Options   Quote The Bearded Bard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2012 at 11:12
Originally posted by presdoug

I have always felt that Mr. Koellen's solo album is sort of prog meets mainstream, it is like he still had one foot in prog, and one foot somewhere more mainstream.
I haven't heard his solo album, but if this opinion is shared with several members of this site, wouldn't that make Helmut Koellen a good fit for Crossover? Perhaps it would be good idea to let the Crossover Team take a look at him before pursuing the Prog Related route? If the New Suggestions Team agrees of courseWink
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