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Mirror Image View Drop Down
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    Posted: August 09 2012 at 20:57
Originally posted by deckard33

Music talent is one thing, social behavior is one other thing.
For the second thing, shame on Steven Wilson ...
Moreover, he criticized Roine Stolt for its 70's prog, but what did SW propose until now ?
All its music is strongly inspired from Pink Floyd (first PT albums), King Crimson (latest solo), but much more boring ...
Go on Roine, play what you like, stay what you are, don't waste time to answer to so mindless attacks ...
 
Right on!


Edited by Mirror Image - August 09 2012 at 20:57
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napoca View Drop Down
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Posts: 24 		Post Options Post Options   Quote napoca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 00:50
Originally posted by Mirror Image

Originally posted by deckard33

Music talent is one thing, social behavior is one other thing.
For the second thing, shame on Steven Wilson ...
Moreover, he criticized Roine Stolt for its 70's prog, but what did SW propose until now ?
All its music is strongly inspired from Pink Floyd (first PT albums), King Crimson (latest solo), but much more boring ...
Go on Roine, play what you like, stay what you are, don't waste time to answer to so mindless attacks ...
 
Right on!
 

This seems to be a discussion ultimately based on personal tastes.

I don’t see that much talent in SW as I don’t see that much bad social behavior he seems to expose according to some opinions. What social behavior - an interview to a minor publication in which he more or less honestly express his opinions?  If he is wrong in his opinions so what?

After all he might be as much frustrated as we are that progressive music is not such a major act and huge success as it should deserve to be. I personally don’t know SW’s “drama” as a musician, I only can guess it, but this is not my business. What for sure is my business is what music I listen to. And none of SW declarations and criticism is going to make me listen less to Porcupine Tree or more to Flower Kings, only because his statements hurts my personal feelings for a band or a style. I am and will listen to what I like regardless what the members of band I might like or not have to say about themselves or others.

The original question was if SW was right or wrong. For me he was wrong both in the message and the way he conveyed, but I won’t like better Flower Kings nor Transatlantic (although I don’t like that much PT either).
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Posts: 8935 		Post Options Post Options   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 01:31
Have we managed to kick the arse out of this discussion yet?
 
As napoca says we will still listen to what we want to regardless. SW is not the messiah just a very naughty boy
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Posts: 1124 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MillsLayne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 02:14
SW has always been very opinionated, so these comments don't really surprise me.  And, honestly, who cares if he doesn't seem to like Roine Stolt's music or the bands he happens to be associated with?  I see a lot of comments on here that are in the same vein against PT and they aren't lambasted the way he seems to be with this particular situation.
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Posts: 502 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ytse_Jam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 06:28
^ I don't see anyone saying PT and SW are the death of prog, though...
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Posts: 4744 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 09:11
Originally posted by Ytse_Jam

^ I don't see anyone saying PT and SW are the death of prog, though...


And imagine the uproar if somebody actually said so on the forum.  
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Posts: 435 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Lofcaudio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 09:44
I just listened to "Raider II" again (the epic from Wilson's Grace For Drowning).  When has Stolt ever plagiarized a classic band as much as Wilson did with this song?  Raider II is almost identical to early 70s King Crimson.  Make a 23 minute edit of Talking Drum, Larks' Tongues in Aspic (either 1 or 2, you pick) and some Moonchild noodling and you've got Raider II.
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Posts: 4744 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 09:50
I beg to differ, none of those KC tracks are so rambling and devoid of evolution as Raider.   Wink
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Posts: 435 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Lofcaudio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 10:04
Originally posted by rogerthat

I beg to differ, none of those KC tracks are so rambling and devoid of evolution as Raider.   Wink

Ha!  You're absolutely correct in that, but I was trying to be nice to Wilson and to all of the fanboys that seem to think that Raider II is the best epic ever.
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Posts: 679 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mirror Image Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 10:31
Originally posted by Ytse_Jam

^ I don't see anyone saying PT and SW are the death of prog, though...
 
This ignornant comment is what caused me to turn my nose up at Wilson.
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Posts: 679 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mirror Image Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 10:43
Originally posted by napoca

 

This seems to be a discussion ultimately based on personal tastes.

I don’t see that much talent in SW as I don’t see that much bad social behavior he seems to expose according to some opinions. What social behavior - an interview to a minor publication in which he more or less honestly express his opinions?  If he is wrong in his opinions so what?

After all he might be as much frustrated as we are that progressive music is not such a major act and huge success as it should deserve to be. I personally don’t know SW’s “drama” as a musician, I only can guess it, but this is not my business. What for sure is my business is what music I listen to. And none of SW declarations and criticism is going to make me listen less to Porcupine Tree or more to Flower Kings, only because his statements hurts my personal feelings for a band or a style. I am and will listen to what I like regardless what the members of band I might like or not have to say about themselves or others.

The original question was if SW was right or wrong. For me he was wrong both in the message and the way he conveyed, but I won’t like better Flower Kings nor Transatlantic (although I don’t like that much PT either).

 
No, this is a discussion about keeping your fat trap shut. Wilson could have simply stated his opinion about what he thinks of progressive music and leave it at that, but, no, what we get instead is a lot of grandstanding and hot air. I don't have ANYTHING against the man's music so it's not about personal tastes, it's about respecting musicians who are just as inventive and creative as he is. I agree with what another member said that Stolt shouldn't have said anything back, but Stolt comes across as a hard-working and humble musician here as he does in all the interviews I've read with him. In the end, as I've said many times now, there are many fans of both PT and TFK. I think it's unwise to alienate his listeners with these kinds of comments.


Edited by Mirror Image - August 10 2012 at 10:47
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Posts: 679 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mirror Image Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 10:55
Originally posted by MillsLayne

SW has always been very opinionated, so these comments don't really surprise me.  And, honestly, who cares if he doesn't seem to like Roine Stolt's music or the bands he happens to be associated with?  I see a lot of comments on here that are in the same vein against PT and they aren't lambasted the way he seems to be with this particular situation.
 
Again, it's not about whether he likes Stolt or not, it's about respect for musicians who reach from the same pot he does. Wilson's comments are hypocritical and just plain wrong. He is as guilty as any musician from being derivative in some way. Whether he's borrowing from Radiohead, King Crimson, or Pink Floyd, he's not doing anything different than when Stolt borrows from Genesis or Yes. It's just that Wilson needs to learn how to keep these contradictory opinions to himself because he comes across as an arrogant prick.
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Posts: 8092 		Post Options Post Options   Quote CCVP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 11:25
I think this sounds a bit like retro prog, but just a bit because Steven Wilson wrote it.
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Posts: 24 		Post Options Post Options   Quote napoca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 13:36
Originally posted by Mirror Image

Originally posted by napoca

 

This seems to be a discussion ultimately based on personal tastes.

I don’t see that much talent in SW as I don’t see that much bad social behavior he seems to expose according to some opinions. What social behavior - an interview to a minor publication in which he more or less honestly express his opinions?  If he is wrong in his opinions so what?

After all he might be as much frustrated as we are that progressive music is not such a major act and huge success as it should deserve to be. I personally don’t know SW’s “drama” as a musician, I only can guess it, but this is not my business. What for sure is my business is what music I listen to. And none of SW declarations and criticism is going to make me listen less to Porcupine Tree or more to Flower Kings, only because his statements hurts my personal feelings for a band or a style. I am and will listen to what I like regardless what the members of band I might like or not have to say about themselves or others.

The original question was if SW was right or wrong. For me he was wrong both in the message and the way he conveyed, but I won’t like better Flower Kings nor Transatlantic (although I don’t like that much PT either).

 
No, this is a discussion about keeping your fat trap shut. Wilson could have simply stated his opinion about what he thinks of progressive music and leave it at that, but, no, what we get instead is a lot of grandstanding and hot air. I don't have ANYTHING against the man's music so it's not about personal tastes, it's about respecting musicians who are just as inventive and creative as he is. I agree with what another member said that Stolt shouldn't have said anything back, but Stolt comes across as a hard-working and humble musician here as he does in all the interviews I've read with him. In the end, as I've said many times now, there are many fans of both PT and TFK. I think it's unwise to alienate his listeners with these kinds of comments.
 
In 8 years since I've been member to this forum I posted 15 messages (5 in this post), more or less because of beeing "intimidated" by "senior" members and all sort of VIP like you.
 
Before shuting my fat trap I only humbly want to mention that my position was and is against what SW think about prog and the way he attack Flower Kings and Transatlantic, but probably you were too busy playing God to read what one mortal had to say. I like both PT and TFK but in resonable limits, and I don't see how my oppinion could alienate normal people. SW was arogant, so what, are you going to be the next Mark David Chapman?
 
This being said I leave you now to enjoy your hot air - for me you are exactlly like Steve Wilson.


Edited by napoca - August 10 2012 at 14:44
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Posts: 1 		Post Options Post Options   Quote vjpthe2nd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 14:53
i have Been a "progressive" since i first heard YES in 1969.  i still love the style of music, while mr. wilson has made a few good songs songs RONI STOLT has made a lot, many ,a ton of or how ever you want to say it GREAT MUSIC.  with Kaipa, Flower Kings , solo,and TRANSALANTIC. mr. wilson go listen to the whirlwind (if your ego can stand it). every great musician or band has there stellar moments, roni has had many ,i guess steve is still waiting. 
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Posts: 8935 		Post Options Post Options   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 15:04
Originally posted by CCVP

I think this sounds a bit like retro prog, but just a bit because Steven Wilson wrote it.

 
yep that is so derivativeConfused
 
 
 
Time Flies would have been a more obvious example for me
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Posts: 502 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ytse_Jam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 19:24
Originally posted by Mirror Image

Originally posted by Ytse_Jam

^ I don't see anyone saying PT and SW are the death of prog, though...
 
This ignornant comment is what caused me to turn my nose up at Wilson.
Is the "ignorant comment" referred to who?
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Posts: 10342 		Post Options Post Options   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 22:59
Originally posted by napoca

Originally posted by Mirror Image

Originally posted by napoca

 

This seems to be a discussion ultimately based on personal tastes.

I don’t see that much talent in SW as I don’t see that much bad social behavior he seems to expose according to some opinions. What social behavior - an interview to a minor publication in which he more or less honestly express his opinions?  If he is wrong in his opinions so what?

After all he might be as much frustrated as we are that progressive music is not such a major act and huge success as it should deserve to be. I personally don’t know SW’s “drama” as a musician, I only can guess it, but this is not my business. What for sure is my business is what music I listen to. And none of SW declarations and criticism is going to make me listen less to Porcupine Tree or more to Flower Kings, only because his statements hurts my personal feelings for a band or a style. I am and will listen to what I like regardless what the members of band I might like or not have to say about themselves or others.

The original question was if SW was right or wrong. For me he was wrong both in the message and the way he conveyed, but I won’t like better Flower Kings nor Transatlantic (although I don’t like that much PT either).

 
No, this is a discussion about keeping your fat trap shut. Wilson could have simply stated his opinion about what he thinks of progressive music and leave it at that, but, no, what we get instead is a lot of grandstanding and hot air. I don't have ANYTHING against the man's music so it's not about personal tastes, it's about respecting musicians who are just as inventive and creative as he is. I agree with what another member said that Stolt shouldn't have said anything back, but Stolt comes across as a hard-working and humble musician here as he does in all the interviews I've read with him. In the end, as I've said many times now, there are many fans of both PT and TFK. I think it's unwise to alienate his listeners with these kinds of comments.
 
In 8 years since I've been member to this forum I posted 15 messages (5 in this post), more or less because of beeing "intimidated" by "senior" members and all sort of VIP like you.
 
Before shutting my fat trap I only humbly want to mention that my position was and is against what SW think about prog and the way he attack Flower Kings and Transatlantic, but probably you were too busy playing God to read what one mortal had to say. I like both PT and TFK but in resonable limits, and I don't see how my oppinion could alienate normal people. SW was arogant, so what, are you going to be the next Mark David Chapman?
 
This being said I leave you now to enjoy your hot air - for me you are exactlly like Steve Wilson.


I'm pretty sure he meant---"This is a discussion about Steven Wilson keeping his fat trap shut". I don't he meant 'your' personally, but more generally.




Edited by darkshade - August 10 2012 at 22:59
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Posts: 4744 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 23:04
His English seems to be as bad as Stolt's (or he's just getting agitated), so we should give some benefit of doubt for that.   However, he has been somewhat defensive-aggressive in this discussion.  That's not really called for on a forum where the art of disagreeing agreeably is valued.   If you want to boss people into accepting your viewpoints about Stolt or Wilson, please don't initiate discussions on PA, that's not what it's about.   We don't need no fanboys, either which way.
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Posts: 679 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mirror Image Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 23:42
Originally posted by darkshade



I'm pretty sure he meant---"This is a discussion about Steven Wilson keeping his fat trap shut". I don't he meant 'your' personally, but more generally.


Yes, I didn't mean to say this to another member. I was referring to Wilson. Oh boy, I've gotten myself into some hot water here I see. I'm talking about Wilson and only Wilson folks. Sorry folks! Ouch Embarrassed
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