Steven Wilson Vs. Roine Stolt

Although Steven's comment came out as very rude, i totally agree with him. These two bands have never sounded original or unique, even if the songs are good. They are stuck in a particular style, clinging to this formula of writing 30 minute songs that sound exactly like ELP or Yes. I think what he was trying to say is that those bands are not breaking any ground in any way, and are just perpetuating an established genre of music, which is contrary to the true meaning of "being progressive". Now, bands like Mars Volta and Tool don't sound like anything you've heard before, as did Yes when they started out. THESE are TRULY "progressive" bands.

One thing is to borrow various influences and incorporate them seamlessly and in a natural way to create fresh sounding music. Another thing is to paste and cut influences artificially, hoping that it sounds proggy.

Originally posted by sleeper Originally posted by dtguitarfan Originally posted by Guldbamsen I think you hit the nail on the head John. Prog fans are more than anything, people who reside outside of the popular music spheres, and even if most of us whine about not having anybody to share our musical tastes with, at least in real life, - I think we revel in the mystical and selfserving underdog status that naturally comes with the territory. Then we get to know the prog circles better and better, and suddenly this underdog thing barks again and we start digging even deeper for something obscure and unknown. Why? It's simply cool to listen to music nobody else does. Well that is part of the equation I think. The underdog attitude still pushes us forward to find new under the radar music, and when you finally get there, bands like PT and DT suddenly feel enormous - especially due to the constant free advertising they get from people who just happened to stumble over one of their albums and then got to know the word prog. We are constantly reminded of these big bands, and even if they are far from being the huge billionaire acts some of us see them as, they still stand for something that is corporate and big business like. So it becomes 'cool' to hate on these bands - even if they still carry the torch of our much beloved music and continue to draw people in to progressive waters, where they probably at some point will get to know about all those other bands that deserve much more recognition, because they are more underground...? Bollocks! Oh and this is coming from a guy who revels in the obscure and out there... I actually think you are spot on here - at least I've noticed many people seem to hate on the more well known Prog acts and when you look at some of the other music they have given 5 stars to, the only logical explanation is that they don't like these artists because they've been successful.  I myself has always loved Prog simply because I love the music, and I've always hoped that the bands I loved WOULD make it big someday.  I want them to be successful, and I want more people to know about them. That first sentence is complete and utter bollocks, most people on here rate according to their taste and if they have given popular bands low ratings, it's because they dont like them, and the opposite is true of less known bands with high ratings. The last two sentences are the kind of thing that all but the most elitist of snobs would express, we want bands we like to do well so that they can keep on making the music we like.

Edited by Horizons - August 03 2012 at 17:13

Yea, you can easily break down even the most original act. Let's take The Mars Volta as an example.

1 part punk
1 part Latin music
1 part Robert Fripp
1 part jazz-fusion
1 part psychedelia
1 part electronic (more recently)

Doesn't look so original now.

On the The Flower Kings/Transatlantic thing: I don't pretend they're not highly influenced by the likes of Yes, ELP, or even King Crimson and Genesis, in fact, there's nothing wrong with that. But that's not to say that TFK and TA, or their peers, haven't done anything to progress the symphonic prog genre. Take The Flower King's epic hour-long suite "Garden of Dreams". That epic goes in directions that Yes and ELP would never have dreamed of going. The musical landscapes are much bigger, and even more colorful. TFK, also have a nice jazz slant to their music, which the classic bands did not, for the most part.

A TFK-related band, Karmakanic, actually do experiment with their sound, and have actually changed things up throughout their 4 current albums, even though they are symphonic prog. Jonas Reingold has even stated in a recent interview that, and I paraphrase, "It's good to at least have a couple songs each album where we try new things, songs that are actually progressive".

Maybe these bands aren't progressing the genre all the time, and they never claim to be 'future of progressive rock', but to say that they make the same album every time is a little extreme (unless it's Neal Morse ).

Sure, they don't sound exactly the same, but it's dangerously close.

Hell, even Marillion is a pretty unique band. Sure, they will inevitably remind you of PG Genesis, because of Fish's voice quality, but the songs have a completely different approach.

ELP remind me of certain classical composers. Yes remind me of The Beatles and 60s folk music. Uh-oh!

In the end it all boils down to: is the music any freaking good?  FK left me cold and I went nuts for PT.  Which isn't to disrespect FK.  My first sampling of PT infected me.  My first of FK didn't.  Sometimes it's just a matter of encountering music at the right time.  I could give a rat's ass about how "original" something is.  So I wound up gobbling up all the PT I could get my hands on and stopped at one FK.

For the record my first encounters were In Absentia and Stardust We Are and I haven't ruled out further FK exploration.


Edited by Slartibartfast - August 03 2012 at 17:42

Aside from a couple moments where Roine Stolt is channeling Steve Howe ala Relayer, Stolt is more influenced, to my ears, by Frank Zappa's guitar playing, but again, only 'influenced". Zappa's music, when not being strictly classical, was pretty much a fusion of blues/R&B, and 20th century classical like Stravinsky and Varese. The fact that he hired rock and jazz musicians to play his music gave it the sense of jazz-fusion, or prog rock.

 I agree that no one else in the band sounds like their Yes counterpart, especially Tomas Bodin (and Jonas Reingold). I would throw a lot of the Paradox Hotel album at people's faces to help them realize TFK are not Yes clones; nothing on that album is something Yes, ELP, or Genesis would do. 

Edited by darkshade - August 03 2012 at 19:23

Originally posted by Guldbamsen I think you hit the nail on the head John. Prog fans are more than anything, people who reside outside of the popular music spheres, and even if most of us whine about not having anybody to share our musical tastes with, at least in real life, - I think we revel in the mystical and selfserving underdog status that naturally comes with the territory. Then we get to know the prog circles better and better, and suddenly this underdog thing barks again and we start digging even deeper for something obscure and unknown. Why? It's simply cool to listen to music nobody else does. Well that is part of the equation I think. The underdog attitude still pushes us forward to find new under the radar music, and when you finally get there, bands like PT and DT suddenly feel enormous - especially due to the constant free advertising they get from people who just happened to stumble over one of their albums and then got to know the word prog. We are constantly reminded of these big bands, and even if they are far from being the huge billionaire acts some of us see them as, they still stand for something that is corporate and big business like. So it becomes 'cool' to hate on these bands - even if they still carry the torch of our much beloved music and continue to draw people in to progressive waters, where they probably at some point will get to know about all those other bands that deserve much more recognition, because they are more underground...? Bollocks! Oh and this is coming from a guy who revels in the obscure and out there...