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What the difference between Prog and psychedelic

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Cloud Forest View Drop Down
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    Posted: August 19 2012 at 16:41
Can any of you give me a hand,when listening to prog and psychedelic i cant find any big differences between this genres of music?


Edited by Cloud Forest - August 19 2012 at 16:42
     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sambrad07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2012 at 10:13
Very simple : Psychedelic rock it's the same, that was before, but solos are longer, and more selfless. Music is very expressive.Prog is differ from psychedelia. It took many things from classical music, traditional music, ethnic and jazz.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thellama73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2012 at 10:22
More selfless? What are you talking about?

There is a lot of overlap between prog and psychedelia, but the two terms have different meanings Not all prog music is psychedelic and not all psychedelia is prog.

Prog tends to connote a certain degree of complexity and innovation in the music. Odd time signatures, long songs that are not simply extended jams and the influence of non-rock music.

Psychedelia is mainly about an atmosphere or feeling in the music, specifically "trippyness." Lots of reverb, flanging and phasing effects complete with drawn out instrumental sections and abstract lyrics can contribute to this.

To see the difference, look at a band like Cream. Tales of Brave Ulysses is a very psychedelic song, but there's nothing prog about it. Then look at Rush. La Villa Strangiato is very prog, but not at all psychedelic.

Then you have bands like Pink Floyd with feet planted firmly in both camps..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2012 at 14:16
"Prog" in itself is the vast collection of the many sub-genres you can find in PA, and rivers of ink have been spent arguing about its definiton (needless to say without consensus).
 
Psychedelic is just one of Prog's subgenres, that music focussing on trippy atmospheres, dreamy and ethereal sound effects, often not too complex in terms of composition, structure and arrangements but which can keep itself busy for many minutes of hypnotic rythms and spacy improvisational soloings, ideal for listening to stoned.
 
Asking "what's the difference between Prog and Psychedelic" is like asking what's the difference between religion and catholicism.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thellama73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2012 at 13:46
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

"Prog" in itself is the vast collection of the many sub-genres you can find in PA, and rivers of ink have been spent arguing about its definiton (needless to say without consensus).
 
Psychedelic is just one of Prog's subgenres, that music focussing on trippy atmospheres, dreamy and ethereal sound effects, often not too complex in terms of composition, structure and arrangements but which can keep itself busy for many minutes of hypnotic rythms and spacy improvisational soloings, ideal for listening to stoned.
 
Asking "what's the difference between Prog and Psychedelic" is like asking what's the difference between religion and catholicism.


I don't agree with you. Psych can be prog,and prog can be psych but one is not a subset of the other. A Venn diagram would be helpful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2012 at 14:39
Well actually I thought about it myself after having posted but I was lazy to edit.
 
Psychedelic music predated Prog so for sure it can not be considered as a subset of Prog, only a subset of Psychedelic music can be called Psychedelic Prog.
 
Early Psychedelic (or later Psychedelic which followed on the same early principles) was not yet Prog, just trippy Pop-Rock.
 
I wrote my post thinking specifically about Pychedelic Prog, not Psychedelic music in general.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Shield Stamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2012 at 15:46
The spelling!
Haiku

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Is very diffic....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JellySucker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2013 at 23:51
For me, Psychedelic Rock was the root for Prog, it kind of influenced how things worked on Prog music such as the composition, melodies, etc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HemispheresOfXanadu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2013 at 00:10
Originally posted by JellySucker JellySucker wrote:

For me, Psychedelic Rock was the root for Prog, it kind of influenced how things worked on Prog music such as the composition, melodies, etc
For me it's jazz and, well... rock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2013 at 09:27
Obviously you won't hear how Psychedelic music influenced Prog by choosing just any Psychedelic album at random or recommended to you because of the artist's popularity in the mad times. Ozric Tentacles were influenced by Hawkwind, Gong, and Steve Hillage. Hawkwind and Gong...Daevid Allen were influenced by Syd Barrett to a degree and Syd Barrett was influenced by American Psychedelic bands like The Doors, Jefferson Airplane, and whoknows what else? The Doors used a backdrop of screaming voices in Hell, a strange swirly harpsichord key setting...to back Morrison's poetry in "Horse Latitudes". Very Pink Floyd. Jefferson Airplane recorded a song titled "Lather" on the Crown of Creation album and it not only sounded like a Syd Barrett song, but it contained a style of mixing sound effects between lyrical content ..just as you would hear on a Floyd track like "Juila Dream" (Roger Waters). The influence of Psychedelic is more evident in "Space Rock" or "Krautrock".
 
Bands like Yes, Genesis, and King Crimson are less Psychedelic regarding tones, time signatures, remain more in a Classical vain, covering up their small usage of sound effects ..although their attempt to change the speed of voices on tape, some usage of strings..for example on Yes' "The Prophet" is still more in a Moody Blues style if anything and all derives from the British Psychedelic genre more than the American. If any British musician took an influence from American Psychedelic, it was changed around and crafted to sound differently and it is hard to indicate. Jon Anderson often said that he was influenced by Simon & Garfunkel. Some people have a difficult time digesting this. Simon and Garfunkel recorded a more darker Folk style ..lyrically and musicially. Lyrically..the songs were about death and misfortune. Musically they were in dark minor keys with odd open string tunings or usage of capos. Yes have more of thAT American Folk influence than pure American Psychedelic fuzz tone guitar with Vanilla Fudge organ. The details are there to see...it just takes a little focus and patience. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2013 at 10:09
Psychedelic music originated in the sixties and spawned the prog subgenres of krautrock and spacerock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2013 at 10:22
Weird lyrics about bikes and a wah-wah pedal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2013 at 10:43
What an odd question. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2013 at 11:22
Psychedelic is 

+
+


..And Prog is everything else, including the kitchen sink.



Edited by Dean - November 14 2013 at 13:19


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2013 at 13:17
i want a kitchen sink :(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2013 at 13:21


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2013 at 13:29
i def need one of those.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toaster Mantis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2013 at 14:33
In Turn on Your Mind, a book about psychedelic music's history that I'm reading right now, the author (his name is Jim Derogatis) pins the difference on the amount of influence from classical music. Basically, progressive rock has to have classical influence in how the songs are constructed but the psychedelic doesn't necessarily.

He's somewhat inconsistent about how to apply those definitions, though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2013 at 14:53
and then came Sabbath and changed things even more,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2013 at 15:23
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Jon Anderson often said that he was influenced by Simon & Garfunkel. Some people have a difficult time digesting this. Simon and Garfunkel recorded a more darker Folk style ..lyrically and musicially. Lyrically..the songs were about death and misfortune. Musically they were in dark minor keys with odd open string tunings or usage of capos. Yes have more of thAT American Folk influence than pure American Psychedelic fuzz tone guitar with Vanilla Fudge organ. The details are there to see...it just takes a little focus and patience. 

People think of Simon & Garfunkel and only consider the massive hits but there was a lot more there.  Their 1968 album "Bookends" is very prog to my ears.  It begins with a solo guitar piece (like Crimso's Poseidon album) includes one of the first appearances on album of the Moog modular synth (patched by Bob Moog himself!), the song "America" which Yes of course covered, bizarre interviews with old people (very similar to the Godspeed You Black Emporer song  "Sleep - They Don't Sleep on the Beach Anymore"), and closes side 1 with a restatement of the opening solo guitar piece (like Crimso repeating variations of "Peace" throughout the Poseidon album).  Side 2 has some odd pieces along with the mega-hit Mrs Robinson.  S&G are a lot more musically interesting than history has painted them out to be.
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