Why classic prog faded?

aldri7 wrote: I read somewhere once where the early punkers thought that all the theatrical rock of the late seventies (bowie, glam, prog, etc) was gay. :) They may have lumped prog in with all this other stuff and dismissed it all as being too effeminate for their tastes. They wanted to return heterosexuality to rock :)  learned or was not connected to many of these art scenes, is the same thing as saying, we're all naive, and stupid!

aldri7 wrote: moshkito wrote: aldri7 wrote: I read somewhere once where the early punkers thought that all the theatrical rock of the late seventies (bowie, glam, prog, etc) was gay. :) They may have lumped prog in with all this other stuff and dismissed it all as being too effeminate for their tastes. They wanted to return heterosexuality to rock :) ...     A lot of the punk thing, was not about "expression", because many of them do not have any! So to speak. But they also had a great point, in that we were taking for granted everyone else, because we now were looking at everyone that looked gay or bi-sexual ... as being more of an artist ... and thought that anyone else in any art, wasn't good enough ... and rock music, or pop music, are WAYYYYYYYYY bigger a fad ... than just about any other group o artists! Even my sister in Paris, has been had issues with this, by the way!   But confusing this with "classical prog" is a bit scary, but to suggest that no one in the prog circles had ever known or learned or was not connected to many of these art scenes, is the same thing as saying, we're all naive, and stupid! No, I don't deny sexual orientation issues in music (seemed Bowie was pretty open about it). Personally, my ears are color blind and sexual orientation blind. In other words, I don't care. I mean, the music is all that matters. So I'm not suggesting when I say "I don't share their (the punkers) point of view that I disagree that gay culture was a part of the rock scene I'm talking about. I just disagree that anyone should feel that rock "needs" to be heterosexual as opposed to any other orientation.  And since I was never a fan of punk rock (I'm posting here, not on a punk site), clearly if they were putting themselves and their music out there as being better or more legitimate than what they perceived as being "gay" rock, then I'd have a problem with that :) On the other hand, if the theatrical rock music suffers at the expense of costumes, makeup, overblown stage shows etc, or maybe it doesn't suffer but just isn't as inspired as it could be, then any attitude that comes with it to the effect that gay's are artists and everyone else isn't good enough - well, I vote with my ears.  aldri7

aldri7 wrote:   I wouldn't say there is any correlation between sexual orientation and prog and their fans. But to a punker (teenager in the late 70's maybe), who knows what they thought. Appearances alone might have been enough to cause them to make judgements... ...

Edited by moshkito - February 16 2013 at 14:34

Rock was getting more and more testosterone fueled. Nobody wanted to see an effeminate rock star dress up like a sunflower or a fox in a dress. Then there was punk, and music critics started to lean towards 3 chords, 3 minutes, 4/4 songs. 

Because it had to? The times where changing and I guess some things needed to be forgotten. Still new bands popped in every corner that incorporate prog rock things into their music, which made things more interesting. 

snipingpanda14 wrote: Rock was getting more and more testosterone fueled. Nobody wanted to see an effeminate rock star dress up like a sunflower or a fox in a dress. Then there was punk, and music critics started to lean towards 3 chords, 3 minutes, 4/4 songs.

Edited by moshkito - March 02 2013 at 14:00

Why do you think everyone quit on seeking creative individuality?

Most all my friends quit thinking for themselves.  I have a lot less real friends these days.  I am so bored with them now.
Everyone took the red pill.

richardh wrote: Rush have a fascinating history that to their credit was never just about their seventies albums when you compare them to other bands such as Yes , Genesis and ELP who didn't retain the same intensity and level of artistic merit that Rush had in that God forsaken decade called the eighties. In general I prefer the sleak streamlined and often powerfull approach they had from Permanent Waves to Power Windows compared to their seventies stuff when they were seemingly trying to be a heavier guitar based version of ELP,Yes and Genesis rolled into one. 2112 is quite fun at times and I would concede Farewell To KIngs is a masterpeice but I am nowhere near as keen on Hemispheres (excepting the wonderful La Villa Strangiato). I would strongly argue that Rush best period was 1980 to 1985. After that they made two more outstanding albums (Counterparts and Vapor Trails) but I digress. Rush were one of those band that actually benefited from the demise of classic prog as it allowed then to truly become themselves and stop trying so hard to be a 'prog band' .Some bands need that. The problem was that there were few other bands as good as Rush. Possibly some gave up during the carnage of the punk era. Could being Canadian have helped them? Was there actually a punk scene in Canada??!

I could not disagree more.

More tracks and slicker production does not make the songs more interesting.  Geddy is not a keyboardist in the way he is a bassist.  They admitted that they gave up on pursuing huge epic works like Hemispheres and 2112.  That was the stuff that made them great.  Huge ambition and they pulled it off.   The 80 stuff is just an eye roll.  Poppy, simpler songs shrouded in 46 keyboard tracks, midi sequencers and so on.  Rush was a their best playing their instruments in real time, Geddy singing, playing bass, working the Tauras pedals.. Neil with his elaborate accoustic kit... playing every note.. not hitting sample pads and triggers.  That stuff is for other less talented bands to be doing.  Alex playing his guitar and developing his sound on every album. 

They went from keeping it real and delivering to midi and faking way too much stuff.

They still play the old stuff live very well..

What is disappointing is that they don't write in the abitious style anymore. 

Surrealist wrote: Gabriel left and Genesis did "Trick of the Tail" and "Wind and Wuthering".  "Seconds Out".  They went pop when Hackett left. Gabriel did a lot of very interesting stuff on his early solo albums.  A few pop songs in the 80's but even those albums had some serious depth to them.

Edited by Larree - March 30 2013 at 21:47

Funny stuff... Trick being a pop record!  but I can certainly see your point.... if your frame of reference were Can Utility and the Coastliners.

I can only wish a new Prog Band would come out with a recording like that. 

One thing that separated the top Prog bands from rock bands was their ability to play complex music live.  While this might seem obvious now.. it might likely be lost on this generation.  Kids can make all kinds of complex music on a computer with lots of copy and paste and digital manipulation.  So now.. the "WOW" factor is pretty much gone.

I really wish the whole digital music thing didn't happen for another 50 or 100 years or maybe never. 

We recorded all our records on tape machines early on.. but switched to digital over the last decade or so. 
Now we are back on tape machines because we were spending way too much time on a computer trying to manipulate stuff or trying to fix things that really didn't need fixing.  The bar has been raised so high for production values that it has stripped a lot of the feel and humanity from a recording.  So in our new studio.. NO COMPUTERS ALLOWED.  Not even a smart phone.  No automated board.. just tape reels, and a board.  We are not even using outboard gear from the board other than a couple very basic things like a couple compressors.  What this is doing to us is forcing us to play better, spend more time practicing our instruments and developing the sounds from our instruments and gear so that when it goes down onto tape.. it is done.  That is our sound.  We are not recording dry and then trying to find a sound from a bank of samples or plug ins.  This changes one's approach and consciousness about making music.  It's a much more organic and creative process because the limitations actually force you to be more resourceful and play better.  And believe it or not.. when you are playing better, you tend to be more inspired and creative also.