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Mirror Image 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2011
Location: United States
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Points: 2111
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 Posted: August 18 2014 at 21:41 |
 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:
Mirror Image wrote:
I just finished Dawn and I really enjoyed it. A great album actually. It has some beautiful moments. I especially like the song Gliding Into Light and Knowledge and then how it seamlessly goes into Le Reveil du Soleil - The Dawn. Really fantastic and I'll use the word infectious here yet again.
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Yes-inspired title, eh?  |
Yep. 
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“Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov
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MFP
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 31 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 8829
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Posted: August 19 2014 at 16:35 |
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Floating is the only one I have. Love it.
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Andrea Cortese
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 05 2005
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Points: 4411
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Posted: August 19 2014 at 16:58 |
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I have all the records between 1974 -1983. Really a fantastic band. I think of Dawn, Ocean and SC&ME as a sort of trilogy: thesis, anthithesis ans synthesis. The first is more dynamic, even with orchestral contributions. The second features a majestic wall of sound and gives a sense of cosmic stillness. The third is somehow mix of both.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 26108
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Posted: August 20 2014 at 01:33 |
Andrea Cortese wrote:
I have all the records between 1974 -1983. Really a fantastic band. I think of Dawn, Ocean and SC&ME as a sort of trilogy: thesis, anthithesis ans synthesis. The first is more dynamic, even with orchestral contributions. The second features a majestic wall of sound and gives a sense of cosmic stillness. The third is somehow mix of both. |
Those are the 3 albums that Jurgen Rosenthal played on and also supplied lyrics for. It was a specific period of the band and probably most peoples favourite period as the poll indicates
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Online
Points: 10017
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Posted: August 20 2014 at 03:04 |
Wheelspawn wrote:
Mirror Image wrote:
What shouting? You must be listening to another album. No guitars? What do you call all of Bornemann's guitar work in the four songs? What do you call the solo in Poseidon's Creation? |
Let me try to explain what I hear. It's not shouting as in a harsh yelling, but the vocalist doesn't sound like he's singing; it sounds like he spoke the words forcefully and then the studio work just gave the vocals reverb, delay and chorus. I didn't say there wasn't guitar work, but it's minimal and not memorable. Bornemann is a fine guitarist, but the solos are generic and nothing I wouldn't expect from a generic psychedelic prog album. |
I think I understand what Wheelspawn means. I've listened to just about every album up to '83 and only thoroughly enjoy Inside. For some reason there's genuine songwriting going on there. Eloy's always got lots of promising instumental parts but everything about the vocals rubs me the wrong way. Nasal and unmelodic. To my ears it sounds like Bornemann is performing some verses that weren't originally written to be sung. Most of the time he ends up with a kind of ornamented talking over soundscapes. Pretty much like the evangelist parts in a religious mass reciting Bible-verses (=the parts that mostly ends up in the recycle bin when I rip my CD's of Passions by Bach, Monteverdi etc...). I've decided long ago that Eloy is not the band for me. They aren't the masters of the craft of songwriting that they aspire to.
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2014
Location: Mar Vista, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 4807
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Posted: August 20 2014 at 10:48 |
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Silent Cries and Mighty Echoes was their masterpiece. Very deep and atmospheric. Enjoy the hell out of it.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 26108
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Posted: August 20 2014 at 14:42 |
Saperlipopette! wrote:
Wheelspawn wrote:
Mirror Image wrote:
What shouting? You must be listening to another album. No guitars? What do you call all of Bornemann's guitar work in the four songs? What do you call the solo in Poseidon's Creation? |
Let me try to explain what I hear. It's not shouting as in a harsh yelling, but the vocalist doesn't sound like he's singing; it sounds like he spoke the words forcefully and then the studio work just gave the vocals reverb, delay and chorus. I didn't say there wasn't guitar work, but it's minimal and not memorable. Bornemann is a fine guitarist, but the solos are generic and nothing I wouldn't expect from a generic psychedelic prog album. |
I think I understand what Wheelspawn means. I've listened to just about every album up to '83 and only thoroughly enjoy Inside. For some reason there's genuine songwriting going on there. Eloy's always got lots of promising instumental parts but everything about the vocals rubs me the wrong way. Nasal and unmelodic. To my ears it sounds like Bornemann is performing some verses that weren't originally written to be sung. Most of the time he ends up with a kind of ornamented talking over soundscapes. Pretty much like the evangelist parts in a religious mass reciting Bible-verses (=the parts that mostly ends up in the recycle bin when I rip my CD's of Passions by Bach, Monteverdi etc...). I've decided long ago that Eloy is not the band for me. They aren't the masters of the craft of songwriting that they aspire to. |
Where did you read that?
Eloy are a band heavy on atmosphere and instrumentation. I doubt that anyone just sat down and wrote the songs in any traditional way. However they do 'borrow' quite a bit from other bands, most notably Floyd . Silent Cries is the most derivative but also the most enjoyable imo.
Edited by richardh - August 20 2014 at 14:43
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
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Posted: August 21 2014 at 04:28 |
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^I didn't read it anywhere and maybe it came out a little different than I intented. Its what I think about them after having listened to their music. To me they sound like a very ambitious (bordering on pretentious) band in the songwriting-department that rarely manage to intergrate the different parts of a composition. Some bands sound like they've gone beyond writing conventional melodies because their interest lies elsewhere. Eloy sound like they want to make memorable tunes similar to the bands they borrow bits from, but are only able to write nice-sounding parts & themes. They have the exact same lack of genuine songwriting skills as thousands of modern progmetal bands.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 26108
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Posted: August 21 2014 at 14:27 |
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Well there is no template for prog. Eloy have just created their own music albeit a hybrid of several other bands music. You obviously don't have to like it but to assume they are trying to be this or that and give them a 'fail' based on only your own perception of what you think they are trying to be is a tad convoluted imo.
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Online
Points: 10017
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Posted: August 22 2014 at 02:23 |
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^There's no template for prog I guess, but do I believe some artists are less-and others more successful in what they are trying to achieve and that its possible to have opinions on why that is based on what you hear. I find it interesting to sometimes go beyond like and dislike and once in a while I end up giving bands and artists a "fail". I don't believe that all art is equally great or that all artists are equally talented and that we can use our language to formulate sentences explaining why that is. I'm not however claim ing that I'm never wrong or that I'm your prog guru and that you should stop enjoying Eloy because I don't enjoy them.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 26108
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Posted: August 23 2014 at 03:04 |
But I don't think you understand what they are trying to achieve. Did Eloy ever claim to be a symph band or what is labelled 'crossover' for instance ? Otherwise how we have an idea whether songs were that important or not and in fact some Eloy albums like the latter ones in the seventies seem to lack any discernible structure songs wise at times. If you are trying to say that then fine. I will repeat my view that you cannot fail a band on your own terms which I think is what you are attempting here. For instance I find DSOTM a bit boring but that is because it seems a bit too conventional and close to blues for my taste. Did they fail to create a great song based prog album. Nope I guess not.
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Online
Points: 10017
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Posted: August 23 2014 at 06:28 |
^There's not much point for us continuing this discussion, richardh. I will keep om claiming things about bands or whatever that you will think is wrong of me or misunderstood.
I think Dark Side of the Moon is successful in everything it aims for although I hate Money with a vengeance, and parts of it is a bit of a bore to me as well. I also think the music product/artist Justin Timberlake and the people behind it/him is extremely successful in what they are trying to achieve - although its not my bag.
- Aqua Fragile, New Trolls, BöC's Club Ninja, Comus To Keep From Crying, Peter Hammill's rock opera and 75% of what I've heard by Eloy on the other hand are examples of music I've given a fair chance that (imo) comes across as less successful in what the are trying to achieve. You may think I got these bands/albums intentions wrong as much as you like but you won't change the way I think.
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Rick Robson
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 03 2013
Location: Rio de Janeiro
Status: Offline
Points: 1607
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Posted: August 23 2014 at 07:15 |
^There are albums that put in evidence how much openminded we should be. There was a time in my life that I didn't 'like' to hear an essential presence of saxophone in a rock tune - when I listened to Us And Them for the first time I began to realize how really silly was that feeling. About Eloy, I find them indeed a great and genuine PROG Rock band, their albums clearly shows that for me. But when it comes to Pink Floyd I get the feeling that they went really further than being just an outstanding PROG Rock band.
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 "Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20451
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Posted: August 23 2014 at 07:29 |
richardh wrote:
But I don't think you understand what they are trying to achieve. Did Eloy ever claim to be a symph band or what is labelled 'crossover' for instance ? Otherwise how we have an idea whether songs were that important or not and in fact some Eloy albums like the latter ones in the seventies seem to lack any discernible structure songs wise at times. If you are trying to say that then fine. I will repeat my view that you cannot fail a band on your own terms which I think is what you are attempting here.
For instance I find DSOTM a bit boring but that is because it seems a bit too conventional and close to blues for my taste. Did they fail to create a great song based prog album. Nope I guess not. |
I think Eloy are symphonic meets space rock....never saw any true psychedelia in their music though they are listed under psych space rock here. I also hear some crossover in their later albums.
Just an addendum to this Eloy thread.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 26108
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Posted: August 24 2014 at 01:44 |
Saperlipopette! wrote:
^There's not much point for us continuing this discussion, richardh. I will keep om claiming things about bands or whatever that you will think is wrong of me or misunderstood.
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And I also will of course reserve the right to contradict your opinion especially about my favourite bands 
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Online
Points: 10017
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Posted: August 24 2014 at 05:07 |
^Of course. I just felt we were both writing variations over the same thing over and over getting nowhere. I think perhaps we approach things from two fundamentally different perspectives. I know you are trying to tell me that I can't possibly know what Eloy are trying to achieve, but I guess you'll have to settle with thinking I'm a fool or worse because I still think that to some extent I do. As a professional performer in another creative field I allow myself to "judge" my own and other artists work based on personal knowlegde and experience. Analyzing whether I think something does or doesn't work has always been a necessity to get better at what I do.
... guess I failed in not continuing this discussion
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Mirror Image
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2111
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Posted: August 24 2014 at 09:54 |
Reading through some of the more recent discussions in this thread. I don't give a damn if someone dislikes Eloy. I think they're great and so do the majority of people on this thread. There's always going to be people who think they understand what a band is about only to come up with the short end of the stick. Eloy are a band you either respond to or you actively dislike. I would rather spend my time talking about why I like Eloy and less time responding to people who don't get it and never will. I say let people live in their ignorance and for those of us that love Eloy, PROG ON! 
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“Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Online
Points: 10017
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Posted: August 24 2014 at 15:56 |
Mirror Image wrote:
Reading through some of the more recent discussions in this thread. I don't give a damn if someone dislikes Eloy. I think they're great and so do the majority of people on this thread. There's always going to be people who think they understand what a band is about only to come up with the short end of the stick. Eloy are a band you either respond to or you actively dislike. I would rather spend my time talking about why I like Eloy and less time responding to people who don't get it and never will. I say let people live in their ignorance and for those of us that love Eloy, PROG ON!  |
So you say but reading your previous posts here there's absolutely no reason to believe that don't give a damn. Btw: My dismissal of Eloy has nothing to do with ignorance. Quite the opposite.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 26108
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Posted: August 25 2014 at 02:52 |
I was just trying to understand an unusual point of view.
Also I would never try to pretend Eloy were a perfect band although technically they were probably as close as any could be. Songs and creative wise they were a band that clearly were imitating much greater and more important bands. However within that they created something new , perhaps a crossover between symph and space rock as suggested by the good doctor. Perhaps they were reaching for that , perhaps it was accidental. I don't know and I'm not sure its even important how it happened
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verslibre
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Joined: July 01 2004
Location: CA
Status: Offline
Points: 14980
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Posted: August 25 2014 at 12:49 |
Eloy's a great band. They're not for everybody; the same goes for Thinking Plague and Gentle Giant.
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Greatest 1970s Eloy album
