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The best ones have a immediate impact

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Ytse_Jam View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ytse_Jam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2012 at 18:17
I don't agree. Songs that take me at the first listens are usually the ones I get bored first, and some of my absolute favourite albums, like TAAB, Trilogy by ELP, or Stardust We Are by The Flower Kings, required me multiple listens to properly get into them.

Edited by Ytse_Jam - November 30 2012 at 18:34
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thellama73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2012 at 14:20
Originally posted by tamijo tamijo wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by tamijo tamijo wrote:

I still dont understand "A Passion Play"


It's a story about a hare who lost his spectacles. Observe:

The entirety of "A Passion Play" is simply an allegorical retelling of the more direct story of the Hare Who Lost His Spectacles."

In both cases the main character loses something(an object or his life) "and so I'm dead, the young man said"; "the hare has lost his spectacles"

The protagonist requires guidance to progress "a sweetly scented angel fell"; "without his spectacles he appeared completely helpless"

A group of unhelpful onlookers gathers, seeming to take pleasure in his predicament rather than really empathizing with him. "for the gory satisfaction of telling you how absolutely awful you really are.": "I have good eyesight, insight and foresight"

An ineffective solution is proposed. "show me a good man and I'll show you the door."; "you must go in search of the optician."

An alternative, equally foolish solution is proposed. "Flee the icy Lucifer. Oh, he's an awful fellow!"; "You can take him in your pouch."

The protagonist realizes the uselessness of the others' help "here's the everlasting rub, neither am I good nor bad."; "it had become quite plain to hare that the others knew nothing about spectacles."

He realizes that the solution to his problem had been with him right from the beginning. "I'd give up my halo for a horn, and the horn for the hat I once had."; "After all, hare did have a spare pair."

Doesn't it seem obvious now?
Sorry i was that unclear - i understand the story !
My point was, that "A Passion Play", is one classic albums, that never got to me, and I am a HUGE Tull
fan, I love TAAB, MITG, War Child, Songs from, Aqualung, Storm W., Heavy H. 
I have no idear why, but that one does not ring my bell. 


So you agree with my analysis then?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AtomicCrimsonRush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2012 at 03:00
There are not many albums that had an immediate impact but here are some of them.... now i have got my computer camera to work I can post them....




and these vinyls

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamijo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2012 at 02:17
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by tamijo tamijo wrote:

I still dont understand "A Passion Play"


It's a story about a hare who lost his spectacles. Observe:

The entirety of "A Passion Play" is simply an allegorical retelling of the more direct story of the Hare Who Lost His Spectacles."

In both cases the main character loses something(an object or his life) "and so I'm dead, the young man said"; "the hare has lost his spectacles"

The protagonist requires guidance to progress "a sweetly scented angel fell"; "without his spectacles he appeared completely helpless"

A group of unhelpful onlookers gathers, seeming to take pleasure in his predicament rather than really empathizing with him. "for the gory satisfaction of telling you how absolutely awful you really are.": "I have good eyesight, insight and foresight"

An ineffective solution is proposed. "show me a good man and I'll show you the door."; "you must go in search of the optician."

An alternative, equally foolish solution is proposed. "Flee the icy Lucifer. Oh, he's an awful fellow!"; "You can take him in your pouch."

The protagonist realizes the uselessness of the others' help "here's the everlasting rub, neither am I good nor bad."; "it had become quite plain to hare that the others knew nothing about spectacles."

He realizes that the solution to his problem had been with him right from the beginning. "I'd give up my halo for a horn, and the horn for the hat I once had."; "After all, hare did have a spare pair."

Doesn't it seem obvious now?
Sorry i was that unclear - i understand the story !
My point was, that "A Passion Play", is one classic albums, that never got to me, and I am a HUGE Tull
fan, I love TAAB, MITG, War Child, Songs from, Aqualung, Storm W., Heavy H. 
I have no idear why, but that one does not ring my bell. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tapfret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2012 at 20:32
Many times extreme reaction has a recoil. Many of the albums that I find the best took some growing and many that I was head over heals for became annoying (Most The Mars Volta and Dream Theater albums being examples).  Magma did not impact me at first but are now amongst my favorites.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rdtprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2012 at 17:12
I am thinking about a cd that took me many listening to have a impact on me and the only one i can think of is the live album "Playing the Fool" by GG. But it was more a cerebral thing for me, and it was to impress my friend who was a big fan of the band. I must say that is one of the most interesting band for the mind in prog rock, because the sophistication and complexity of their music. But , again i have said another big word (mind) that will make some waves.
“Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.”
― Frank Zappa

"I am not afraid of Death, I just don't want to be there when it happens".

- Woody Allen





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thellama73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2012 at 16:08
Originally posted by rdtprog rdtprog wrote:

I am going to simplify the thread by a simple question. What are the songs or albums that you listen the most over a long period of times? So now the debate will be over and will move to another debate.Wink Immediate impact or not., melodic or not...


I was hoping we could shift the thread topic to a discussion of my exceedingly clever analysis of A Passion Play. Unhappy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rdtprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2012 at 15:51
I am going to simplify the thread by a simple question. What are the songs or albums that you listen the most over a long period of times? So now the debate will be over and will move to another debate.Wink Immediate impact or not., melodic or not...
“Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.”
― Frank Zappa

"I am not afraid of Death, I just don't want to be there when it happens".

- Woody Allen





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Josef_K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2012 at 14:19
I actually do think that many pop songs have good melodies, if only a bit "empty" at times. The thing is that they often lack anything interesting beyond that, and so they are of no interest to me. Still, I completely agree on that the melody in the chorus of say "call me maybe" is easily stuck in your head. Does it make it a good song? No, not at all. Does it make it likely to be commercially successful? Yes of course. Those are of course two different things.

When I first listened to Yes, I was disturbed by the atmosphere and the "jumping" feeling in lots of the riffs etc, it felt like they had taken the bad parts from classical music and based their music on that and rock. After plenty of listens, I finally began to like Roundabout. After even more listens I liked Fragile. Then Close to the Edge after adapting/developing my taste even more. Then I got so obsessed with Close to the Edge that I wished they could have made it double the length... this was when I discovered my favorite album (guess which ^^). 

I am currently experiencing a very similar process with bands such as Camel, Gentle Giant and King Crimson. I would say that if you do NOT like something the first time you hear it, but keep coming back because you believe there might be something to it after all, then odds are you have stumbled upon what will reveal itself as a masterpiece, at least in your subjective opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2012 at 12:07
Many of the albums I love the most are albums I have listened to hundreds of times and I know in every detail, and it is this deep knowledge and understanding of the album that makes me still enjoy them so much (even if by now I may not listen to them often anymore, but I still love them).
 
However this is not a golden rule. Some of these albums which I have listened to hundreds of times (and therefore were favourites at some time) have lost their magic with time.
And obviously there are albums which I have discovered too recently to have been able to listen to them hundreds of times (and therefore I am still on the way of getting to know them in full detail) which have already gained my love.
 
I remember that for a long time I did not like The Lamb's In The Cage melody, I found it corny, but I finally came to like it.
 
All the combinations are possible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2012 at 11:36
Usually it's the more lengthy complex pieces that take longer to really enjoy and get a stronger appreciation for, but it's that lengthy adjustment period that makes it so great. In other words, the longer the adjustment the more likely that piece of music will stay with you longer.

This is just my experience. THICK AS A BRICK is a good example for me. Didn't love it at first, but after setting with it a few times more I began to hear things that I loved and didn't hear the first time. You see, with a more lengthy involved piece of music it's really hard to take in everything that is going on instrumentaly the very first, maybe even 2nd, listen.

What makes prog so great is its repeat value. Their is so much to discover and pay attention to even after several listens.

Threshold still have all the goods that makes them one of the best classic rock/Prog metal bands in the world. 2014's For The Journey is worth a serious listen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Polymorphia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2012 at 11:18
Originally posted by HarbouringTheSoul HarbouringTheSoul wrote:


Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

You may like a song that impacts you instantly, and that's fine. I do too; however, if you say that instantly impacting music is necessarily better than gradually impacting music, or vice versa, we have a problem. By saying so, you have necessarily prescribed one mode of listening/appreciating over another (instant gratification in music is better than gradual gratification in music), which is very limiting to aesthetic taste and can cause one to miss out on a lot of masterpieces.

Gratification isn't the same as what the OP called 'impact'. What I call 'impact' is when I recognize something in a piece of music that interests me. That doesn't mean I instantly enjoy the whole piece, but it gives me the indication that it's something I might enjoy. I have yet to come across a piece of music that didn't interest me at all on first listen and later became something I enjoyed. Of course, when I say 'first listen', I mean a real listen, not just putting the music on in the background while doing something else.


By gratification, general aesthetic or cerebral interest is included. I also mean a "real" first listen, disinterested contemplation of the piece of music. Also, your distinctions still don't account for the fact that a piece can hold interest in different ways to different people, and that impact is not necessarily indicative of quality. Even if you or the OP mean so in a subjective sense, that the kind of music one would like is instantly impacting on first listen, if you look at most of the other comments, you'll see that it doesn't necessarily hold true for everybody. And again, you are also ignoring the fact that listeners mature and look for different things than they did previously. 

Edited by Polymorphia - November 27 2012 at 11:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2012 at 10:58
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

"Melody" is the simplest thing to work around in music ... but it is also the most over rated part of music, and the one part that often is not even the major part in it.
Ah! ... Hurts already.

Pedro, as an aspiring songwriter I can tell you this much: you clearly have no idea how difficult it is to come up with a really good melody. If what you said there was true, the Beaver and his Tarantulas would have no problem getting as good as, say, Nick Drake ... I think ... .

Edited by Dayvenkirq - November 27 2012 at 11:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2012 at 09:09
Originally posted by rdtprog rdtprog wrote:

I am sure that a lot of you know on a first listening if a song have a impact on you and will still have in the future, and again i don't mean that it's a pop tune with catchy beat and melody, but it could be a song that contains many movements and a strong melody and it could be a classical song with no vocals. What could be subjective is that the classical pieces that have a impact doesn't reach me at the same level as a progressive rock song. I don't want to say that a form a music is better than another one, but only that the best composers on any music genre are the ones who have the art of touching  the audience with something in theirs songs that make that we want to hear their songs many times. It's like what we call here "The classic albums".


While in general, a track I like is one that made an impression on me the first time, it is not always the case and one of the exceptions is significant - King Crimson.  They are my favourite prog rock band and yet, initially, I stinted over them and spent several distracted listens trying to find something to enjoy in their music.  And then *boom* it clicked.   I would say the more flexible you are in trying to listen to something from a different perspective, the more likely it is that this sort of thing would happen to you.   For a long time, I thought of Kate Bush as just another talented artist and was not particularly fond of her albums.   I more or less completely disliked Kid A the first time I heard it and didn't feel like returning to it.   If you are of the "I know what I like and I like what I know" kind, you probably tend to gravitate to what is familiar and then, yes, first impressions can make or break the deal.   I have seen people make a snap judgment within seconds of listening to a song about whether they should check out some band or artist.    Please note that I am not saying one approach is better than the other, just that there is no one universal best approach for everyone.   Some people hate it when it is not memorable, some people hate it when it is and the rest are somewhere in the middle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thellama73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2012 at 08:21
Originally posted by tamijo tamijo wrote:

I still dont understand "A Passion Play"


It's a story about a hare who lost his spectacles. Observe:

The entirety of "A Passion Play" is simply an allegorical retelling of the more direct story of the Hare Who Lost His Spectacles."

In both cases the main character loses something(an object or his life) "and so I'm dead, the young man said"; "the hare has lost his spectacles"

The protagonist requires guidance to progress "a sweetly scented angel fell"; "without his spectacles he appeared completely helpless"

A group of unhelpful onlookers gathers, seeming to take pleasure in his predicament rather than really empathizing with him. "for the gory satisfaction of telling you how absolutely awful you really are.": "I have good eyesight, insight and foresight"

An ineffective solution is proposed. "show me a good man and I'll show you the door."; "you must go in search of the optician."

An alternative, equally foolish solution is proposed. "Flee the icy Lucifer. Oh, he's an awful fellow!"; "You can take him in your pouch."

The protagonist realizes the uselessness of the others' help "here's the everlasting rub, neither am I good nor bad."; "it had become quite plain to hare that the others knew nothing about spectacles."

He realizes that the solution to his problem had been with him right from the beginning. "I'd give up my halo for a horn, and the horn for the hat I once had."; "After all, hare did have a spare pair."

Doesn't it seem obvious now?


Edited by thellama73 - November 27 2012 at 08:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamijo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2012 at 08:18
That kind of thing have happened an uncountable amount of times for me.
Lots of albums was in my top 20 playlist for a year or so, but never got back into my top 100.
 
NB: I still dont understand "A Passion Play",  may be I should give it a few more times.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2012 at 08:11
Originally posted by sagichim sagichim wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by sagichim sagichim wrote:

I think it's right and wrong. With some albums, on the first listen I realized I was listening to something great but some just went over my head or took some time to digest or fully discover.
It happened to me just a few weeks ago with the debut album by Druckfarben. When it was finished I knew it was a 5 star album.
That won't necessarily make it a Classic Album - you could be sick of it this time next week/month/year/decade. Many albums have been 5-star albums after I've listened to them once or twice that have dropped to 4 or even 3 later.


I didn't say it would be a classic album I said it was a very good album. I don't think classic means masterpiece or even 5 star album.

Like Llama mentioned, there are several albums which I once considered as flawless but now I don't think so anymore. But some albums remained the masterpieces they were.

The OP has since clarified that the "best" in the thread title kinda refers to classic albums, so that's kinda implicit from now onwards.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sagichim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2012 at 08:05
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by sagichim sagichim wrote:

I think it's right and wrong. With some albums, on the first listen I realized I was listening to something great but some just went over my head or took some time to digest or fully discover.
It happened to me just a few weeks ago with the debut album by Druckfarben. When it was finished I knew it was a 5 star album.
That won't necessarily make it a Classic Album - you could be sick of it this time next week/month/year/decade. Many albums have been 5-star albums after I've listened to them once or twice that have dropped to 4 or even 3 later.


I didn't say it would be a classic album I said it was a very good album. I don't think classic means masterpiece or even 5 star album.

Like Llama mentioned, there are several albums which I once considered as flawless but now I don't think so anymore. But some albums remained the masterpieces they were.

"One good thing about music, when it hits you feel no pain.."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HarbouringTheSoul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2012 at 08:00
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

A good example of this for me would be Thick as a Brick vs. A Passion Play. I immediately fell in love with TaaB, but over time it lost it's lustre and now I don't care for it as much (I still think it's a great album, just not the flawless masterpiece I once did.) A Passion Play took longer to appreciate, but I now rank it as one of my top two or three records of all time.

Interestingly enough it was the exact opposite for me. I loved A Passion Play on first listen but grew off it over time (even though I still like it), whereas I initially regarded Thick as a Brick as good but inferior, and now I think it's the band's masterpiece. Admittedly, that was during a time when I thought "obscure" means "better".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thellama73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2012 at 07:46
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by sagichim sagichim wrote:

I think it's right and wrong. With some albums, on the first listen I realized I was listening to something great but some just went over my head or took some time to digest or fully discover.
It happened to me just a few weeks ago with the debut album by Druckfarben. When it was finished I knew it was a 5 star album.
That won't necessarily make it a Classic Album - you could be sick of it this time next week/month/year/decade. Many albums have been 5-star albums after I've listened to them once or twice that have dropped to 4 or even 3 later.


A good example of this for me would be Thick as a Brick vs. A Passion Play. I immediately fell in love with TaaB, but over time it lost it's lustre and now I don't care for it as much (I still think it's a great album, just not the flawless masterpiece I once did.) A Passion Play took longer to appreciate, but I now rank it as one of my top two or three records of all time.

The same goes for 2112 vs. Hemispheres. 2112 had a more immediate impact on me, but over time I came regard Hemispheres as a superior piece of music by far.
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