Simple statistics, misconceptions disproved. - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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thellama73 View Drop Down

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Posted: December 04 2012 at 18:14

Catcher10 wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Catcher10 wrote:

Coke or Pepsi?

To some people they are both the same drink......

Yeah, to people with no taste buds.

Agree.......as Coke is clearly the winner!

Quite right.

Catcher10

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Posted: December 04 2012 at 17:47

thellama73 wrote:

Catcher10 wrote:

Coke or Pepsi?

To some people they are both the same drink......

Yeah, to people with no taste buds.

Agree.......as Coke is clearly the winner!

thellama73 View Drop Down

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Posted: December 04 2012 at 16:05

Catcher10 wrote:

Coke or Pepsi?

To some people they are both the same drink......

Yeah, to people with no taste buds.

Catcher10

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Posted: December 04 2012 at 15:54

Its a label, classification that gets discussed about a lot....Symphonic, neo.....so on. Its like asking what sells more in <insert country name> Coke or Pepsi?

To some people they are both the same drink......

So to see the US with the highest number leaves a lot of questions in my mind as to who/what is classifying and is it right.....if there is a such a thing as right/wrong.

prog4evr

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Posted: December 04 2012 at 15:22

The Dark Elf wrote:

This just goes to show you the truth in the saying Mark Twain popularized:

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

progbethyname View Drop Down

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Posted: December 04 2012 at 11:56

moshkito wrote:

progbethyname wrote:

Think this just comes down to simple demographics like land mass, population density, average age etc. These all can relate to a stronger likely hood that a country will have more than the other. I bet the US has the most, But their exposure is not as well known as the UK. Germany. I'm not surprised. Just not enough exposure. I think I only listen to A Poverty's no crime and Vaden Plas. Can't name too many. ...

I think that, if we are to help "progressive" ... make it ... that we have to let go of the "might makes right" concept and learn from it. If all we deal with is mass and density, then the US and England probably lose ... with one possible exception ... it is no secret that both America and England championed the computer age quickly and helped the world see far more than just news and Big Ben ... and the arts and music was really big in the media ... along with the big show ... VIETNAM ... IRA ... and that helps identify and show other cultures. America's media killed the public individuality on purpose ... or as Reagan said ... let them smoke dope and I will win all the elections! ... and made them all look dirty, ugly and stupid ... right in front of garbage, too!

And we gave up!

This is the side of "progressive" ... that everyone refuses to look at ... read the lyrics and what most of them are about. KC's is not just some meaningless lyrics. Genesis, all the way to Lamb, is not just a bunch of meaningless crap. Yes is not meaningless crap until it became just another pop band! ELP ... same thing ... don't give me lies ... and the sucker screams it at your ears ... and it means nothing to you ... it has less to do with "symphonic" or "progressive" than it does the attitude that we all had at the time ... You gotta see that ... or music will forever be meaningless to you! ... just favorites!

That is why the right kind of exposure is important both on a nation platform and as a music platform. They go hand in hand. England had achieved this well in my eyes. :)

Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣

infandous

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Posted: December 04 2012 at 11:14

Of the US bands, how many play symph prog because of British Symph prog? I'd wager, ALL of them Wink

Now, I'm American and have no problem that we were/are "second" when it comes to symph prog. Of course, it's worth also remembering that it was American music that first inspired many/most of the English musicians to start playing and exploring the possibilities of rock and blues (countless British musicians cut their teeth on the blues, a purely American invention).

Sagichim

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Posted: December 04 2012 at 09:40

And among all the US bands how many of them were 70's bands? Maybe most of them came much later?

Edited by sagichim - December 04 2012 at 09:45

moshkito

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Posted: December 04 2012 at 08:10

progbethyname wrote:

Think this just comes down to simple demographics like land mass, population density, average age etc.
These all can relate to a stronger likely hood that a country will have more than the other.

I bet the US has the most, But their exposure is not as well known as the UK.
Germany. I'm not surprised. Just not enough exposure. I think I only listen to A Poverty's no crime and Vaden Plas. Can't name too many.

...

And we gave up!

Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Dean

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Posted: December 04 2012 at 08:00

moshkito wrote:

The European versions were all over, except that too many folks were not able to listen to them ... or worse ... "they singing in French ... or Italian" ... and this has happened here on this board!

Poll Question: Does it matter to you if Lyrics are not in English ?
Poll Choice	Votes	Poll Statistics
Yes it matters	19	[13.87%]
No it does not matter	118	[86.13%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

(www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25164)

NEXT!

What?

moshkito

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Posted: December 04 2012 at 07:52

Blacksword wrote:

Who is the US or European Genesis, Yes, ELP etc..??

Starcastle? Glass Hammer? Spocks Beard? PFM?

Love those bands, but I think the point to be made is that England IS the home of symphonic prog rock in terms of what that particular subgenre spawned and influenced globally.

I would disagree there ... Italian bands were much more influenced by the orchestra and many of them did a lot of orchestral type of work ... simply with electric instruments. You can say Keith did the same thing, but you can not argue with Italy's history of music next to England ... opera alone would render you crazy and ethnocentric.

The European versions were all over, except that too many folks were not able to listen to them ... or worse ... "they singing in French ... or Italian" ... and this has happened here on this board!

Ange was as good, if not better than Genesis will ever be. Mona Lisa and the school that came out of that group that were Ange copies. Italy had so many of them, it's hard to even mention it, and you might even sit and listen to Aqua Fragile one day ... so you get the idea. Spain had a massive number of bands that looked up to YES ... almost to a ridiculous point, but they did some awesome things ... Granada, Azahar and others. Germany had many of them, like Wallenstein, as part of the Cosmic Couriers (not intentionally I don't think!), but many bands also copied Nektar, like Message. Jane/Eloy were/are sister bands that shared some members. Grobbschnitt could be considered symphonic in their use of the leyboards ... though Mr. Eroc was quite different and crazy on his own ... and fun!

There were many in America as well ... but not many of them made it to the radio by the time that the FM band went commercial in the mid 70's. I can go over my record collection easily enough and list bands that you never heard off ... and then you say that the music didn't exist! MUSIC WAS ALWAYS THERE ... it's our ears that weren't! Plain and simple. And it's still a hard battle to open up ears here, specially in a thread like this! Yes, Genesis and ELP were not the front runners ... they were a part of it all just like everyone else. It was a continuing process ... but for you to say that no band had a keyboard at the Fillmore ... you know you are incorrect ... though the place was so cheap that no having keyboards was much easier ... but even Santana was highly progressive already at the time! It's a Beautiful Day! Jefferson Airplane ... and many others.

Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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presdoug

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Posted: December 03 2012 at 17:02

German Symphonic Prog band Triumvirat hit the Top 40 in the USA with Spartacus in '75. At the time, more an exception to the rule, as far as German Sym. Prog making a dent in North America. Triumvirat also hit Number 1 in Portugal and in the top 4 in Brazil only a year later in terms of album sales. (they were not a singles oriented band)

Gerinski

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Posted: December 03 2012 at 12:26

Thandrus wrote:

BTW, does the forum policy allow to post YouTube links for full albums? So we could share some of US gems available there. I've seen songs shared, but not albums, that's why I'm asking.

Nothing against the policy as far as I know, the site hosting the material is You Tube not PA.

There was a thread not long ago posting links to full prog-related documentaries in You Tube.

progbethyname View Drop Down

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Posted: December 03 2012 at 12:06

Think this just comes down to simple demographics like land mass, population density, average age etc.
These all can relate to a stronger likely hood that a country will have more than the other.

I bet the US has the most, But their exposure is not as well known as the UK.
Germany. I'm not surprised. Just not enough exposure. I think I only listen to A Poverty's no crime and Vaden Plas. Can't name too many.

Anyway. My feeling is that the U.S has the most, but the UK produce the best. Just my opinion.

Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣

Thandrus

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Posted: December 03 2012 at 12:02

octopus-4 wrote:

Hungary has few bands and all of them almost symphonic...

Hungary's great when it comes to symphonic prog!

Gerinski wrote:

which is not a valid inference from that fact.

I sense that you now understand that you just revealed that there are more US bands in PA than UK bands so in numerical terms people might want to pay attention to those US bands, and that's fine for me. No offence intended.

Well yeah, I might have been a bit radical / hasty with my conclusions - but anyways, you could tell that amount of ideas generated there was no less. Concerning quality, I think most of prog fans don't know it enough (myself included) to judge it. So it's likely that from this big amount of material reasonable percentage would be gems (just like everywhere, even England). So, attention is warranted Smile

BTW, does the forum policy allow to post YouTube links for full albums? So we could share some of US gems available there. I've seen songs shared, but not albums, that's why I'm asking.

Edited by Thandrus - December 03 2012 at 12:04

Gerinski

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Posted: December 03 2012 at 11:38

Thandrus wrote:

Gerinski wrote:

With all due respect, your "statistics" (if you can call a simple count that) is alright as long as you agree that it's pretty meaningless.

Can you tell me WHY? Besides, the point I made was that US symph at least requires much closer attention. This is its primal meaning; Any additional meaning will be available as / if it gets more exposure LOL

Well that didn't seem to be your point in the OP. Your statistics merely revealed the fact that there are more US bands listed in PA than UK bands, nothing more and nothing less (that's what I mean by "pretty meaningless", just a numerical count without any references has an extremely limited information value), but the point you made of this fact was

Thandrus wrote:

The results proved wrong the most rooted prog misconception according to which UK was the center of symphonic prog.

which is not a valid inference from that fact.

octopus-4

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Posted: December 03 2012 at 11:22

Hungary has few bands and all of them almost symphonic...

Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
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Thandrus

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Posted: December 03 2012 at 10:42

The Dark Elf wrote:

This just goes to show you the truth in the saying Mark Twain popularized:

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Gerinski wrote:

With all due respect, your "statistics" (if you can call a simple count that) is alright as long as you agree that it's pretty meaningless.