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I think Echolyn should be changed to Eclectic Prog

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awaken77 View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 16 2013 at 08:47
Echolyn is symphonic but with touch of "weirdness"  (I feel some Gentle Giant influence)
I'd say they fall into several categories: symphonic prog, neo prog, heavy prog, eclectic prog

the whole classification idea with single category is limited.
if the band evolutioned from hard prog to post-electronic-industrial-blah-blah-blah, how it should be classified?



Edited by awaken77 - January 16 2013 at 08:49
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prog_Traveller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2013 at 11:25
Originally posted by infandous infandous wrote:

I've listened to Echolyn since 2000 or so, and have all but their first album and Cowboy Poems Free (gotta fill those holes!).  I've been coming to this site since 2004.  I didn't realize they were in symphonic until I saw this thread.  I really don't care how they are classified, only that they are a great band and that they are certainly prog.  I don't really have an issue with symphonic, even if I would say now that it doesn't seem like a perfect fit.  It's probably close enough.  Eclectic would probably be okay as well, but I don't see a pressing need to change them.


I'm not going to keep going on about my opinion since I stated it several times here. As far as I'm concerned this thread has evolved into a general discussion about Echolyn.

As for their first album, it is rare and has never been re-released but it is included in the "a little nonsense now and then" "box" set. I have an autographed copy of that actually. It's worth searching out if you like the band and has some other goodies on it. Cowboy Poems is very good but it's a bit more in the song oriented direction and even a little alternative(but in a good way).

I consider myself honored to know the band personally and to have had the opportunity to hang out with them and interview them. Not all musicians are pompous egotistical jerks who don't give a crap about their fans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prog_Traveller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2013 at 11:13
Originally posted by Roj M30 Roj M30 wrote:

I only have the one from Echolyn, Mei, which really is a fantastic album.  Going off that one, they are definitely in the right place in symphonic.

I really must get more from Echolyn.  Any recommendations?


"Suffocating the Bloom" and "As the World" are pretty essential for any prog fan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote infandous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2013 at 08:23
I've listened to Echolyn since 2000 or so, and have all but their first album and Cowboy Poems Free (gotta fill those holes!).  I've been coming to this site since 2004.  I didn't realize they were in symphonic until I saw this thread.  I really don't care how they are classified, only that they are a great band and that they are certainly prog.  I don't really have an issue with symphonic, even if I would say now that it doesn't seem like a perfect fit.  It's probably close enough.  Eclectic would probably be okay as well, but I don't see a pressing need to change them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Federico95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2013 at 08:14
Originally posted by Roj M30 Roj M30 wrote:

I only have the one from Echolyn, Mei, which really is a fantastic album.  Going off that one, they are definitely in the right place in symphonic.

I really must get more from Echolyn.  Any recommendations?

The last album is the best they ever made for me, and I think it is also the best Prog album of the new millennium Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2013 at 03:01
I only have the one from Echolyn, Mei, which really is a fantastic album.  Going off that one, they are definitely in the right place in symphonic.

I really must get more from Echolyn.  Any recommendations?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2013 at 01:04
Well at the end I don't care what Echolyn is classified as long as they get new listers/fans because besides being really nice people they are really good REALLY GOOD musically too!! I have an odd taste not easily pleased and I certainly like them a lot Approve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prog_Traveller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2013 at 00:12
Originally posted by Federico95 Federico95 wrote:

I think that here a band should be labeled as "Eclectic Prog" if it varies through different kind of Prog during their career, and I think that Echolyn did this...



Exactly. That's one of my main reasons for thinking they should be in Eclectic. Glad to see others agree with me on this. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AEProgman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2013 at 20:19
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

^ exactly.
 
We (as human beans) classify things so we can store them away for later reference to save us having to go look for them again, so when we find another thing that looks a bit like that thing we store it away alongside the first thing and now we can find both things again when we want them. In time the pile of things that look the same gets bigger and last thing added to the pile might not look much like the first thing but there is a chain of things-added that connects them all together. This collating method is quite useful which is why we do it, it's useful for helping people find a particular thing and its useful for helping people find things that are like other things - it's rediscovery not discovery. It all falls to pieces when we get too choosy about what goes where and start moving things around from pile to pile, now those relationships and connections are broken and whatever rational that formed any particular pile of things is lost - once you move one thing from one pile to another pile lots of other things in the first pile don't have any relationship to any other thing in that pile, so they have to be moved too, except they don't have much in common with all the things in the second pile. So we need to create a miscellaneous pile for all those things that are not directly connected with any of the first things in either pile and once you have a miscellaneous pile everything can fit in that pile and the purpose of classifying and sorting things is no longer valid - we cannot find anything because everything is an unclassified mess.
 
The "Art Rock" categories like Heavy, Eclectic and Crossover were never miscellaneous piles, they had a purpose and an intent - we all may disagree on what that initial intent was and the rational for adding bands into those categories will have evolved as those categories grew (and the personnel adding bands into them changed) but they are still classified categories whose definitions extend beyond the dictionary definition/etymology of just their names.
 
As already stated - all Progressive Rock is eclectic, but that is in the adjective use of the word, we must use caution when trying to use it as a noun.
Eventually the moving of these "Piles" around will become like this definition:
Definition: Piles (properly called hemorrhoids) are painful and/or itchy swollen veins in the rectum.
 
Sorry...Embarrassed, but  I agree and should leave Echolyn as is even though there may be some debateable reasons for re-classification. 
 
On a side note, you Site Admin guys do an amazing job on this site and have a thankless job...Thanks! Clap


Edited by AEProgman - January 14 2013 at 20:35

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2013 at 19:44
Originally posted by Smurph Smurph wrote:

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Echolyn are excellent, I would never classify them as eclectic tho' Disapprove unless my perception of eclectic is wrong.
 
Also every album is quite different from the other but that is not consideret eclectic either. Smile


actually Sonia when every album sounds different it is indeed eclectic Smile
 
Nope sweetheart, sounding different means they took a different direction not necessary eclectic. I think eclectic means a lot of key changes within one track not album, most times heavy use of hammond organ or mellotron/novatron, oddest key changes, some tracks I'd call them marmite tracks coz some might like it but a lot won't, also not very radio friendly, Big smile

I would say eclectic is a genre that is mostly undefinable without being quite so weird that it goes in Avant. Also, eclectic can also mean that they have moved through so many genres throughout their career that you can't define them either. This works with King Crimson. Echolyn, on the other hand have not had such a varied career. If they went out and released some very strange work that was opposite what they normally do as their next album, I would support eclectic.
 
Hello Smurph,
Hug your alias name reminds me of those cute tiny blue people with white hoods and white pants Big smile cute!
I am personally don't care what a band's classification is, however for Echolyn fans it should not matter because they know and follow the band no matter what genre. I believe it's a guiding tool for new prospects, thus every album should be classified accordingly in order to direct them there.   Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smurph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2013 at 15:20
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Echolyn are excellent, I would never classify them as eclectic tho' Disapprove unless my perception of eclectic is wrong.
 
Also every album is quite different from the other but that is not consideret eclectic either. Smile


actually Sonia when every album sounds different it is indeed eclectic Smile
 
Nope sweetheart, sounding different means they took a different direction not necessary eclectic. I think eclectic means a lot of key changes within one track not album, most times heavy use of hammond organ or mellotron/novatron, oddest key changes, some tracks I'd call them marmite tracks coz some might like it but a lot won't, also not very radio friendly, Big smile

I would say eclectic is a genre that is mostly undefinable without being quite so weird that it goes in Avant. Also, eclectic can also mean that they have moved through so many genres throughout their career that you can't define them either. This works with King Crimson. Echolyn, on the other hand have not had such a varied career. If they went out and released some very strange work that was opposite what they normally do as their next album, I would support eclectic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smurph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2013 at 15:17
We do have bands switch genres all the time when it comes to Tech/Extreme to Experimental/Post Metal.

Honestly, I would say they are symphonic enough. Very active symphonic. While they do play Gentle Giant inspired parts here and there, they don't change quite as frequently as GG.

If they were to change anywhere I would be happy putting them in Xover because they have enough catchy melodies and a sort of "pleasing" quality to their recordings that make it both hard edged and easy going.

But really I think we should just leave it where it is.

Epignosis and Ivan would probably be the ones to discuss this with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2013 at 12:08
Just hyphenate all bands as "Whatever Prog-Eclectic" ......also change the site name to
 
Prog Archives-Eclectic


Edited by Catcher10 - January 14 2013 at 12:24

   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Federico95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2013 at 08:14
I think that here a band should be labeled as "Eclectic Prog" if it varies through different kind of Prog during their career, and I think that Echolyn did this...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prog_Traveller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2013 at 00:00
Well I was inadvertently chatting with a woman who he was apparently dating. I don't know if they are still seeing eachother though. I wasn't really trying to pick her up(especially after I found out that she was seeing him) but just being friendly and making small talk. But in all honesty I do have a thing for women(especially attractive ones) who like prog. So if that picture is you then ummmm let's just say that if you didn't live in Mozambique...Wink But don't worry I'll be a gentlman on here and I'm not on here to pick up progchicks. It would be nice to meet a woman and take her to some prog shows or festivals and not have her complain or fall asleep on me though. LOL


But back to the discussion that I started, like I said Echolyn did have a few albums early on(maybe the first two and one ep)that could be considered symphonic but really that's about it. As for crossover prog, I'd buy that before symphonic and I would even be happy with that label. When a band is mislabeled like Porcupine Tree also is(they also should be either eclectic or crossover or even psych space) I'm going to say something about it just like you guys all should if it strikes your fancy.


Edited by Prog_Traveller - January 14 2013 at 00:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2013 at 07:35
^ exactly.
 
We (as human beans) classify things so we can store them away for later reference to save us having to go look for them again, so when we find another thing that looks a bit like that thing we store it away alongside the first thing and now we can find both things again when we want them. In time the pile of things that look the same gets bigger and last thing added to the pile might not look much like the first thing but there is a chain of things-added that connects them all together. This collating method is quite useful which is why we do it, it's useful for helping people find a particular thing and its useful for helping people find things that are like other things - it's rediscovery not discovery. It all falls to pieces when we get too choosy about what goes where and start moving things around from pile to pile, now those relationships and connections are broken and whatever rational that formed any particular pile of things is lost - once you move one thing from one pile to another pile lots of other things in the first pile don't have any relationship to any other thing in that pile, so they have to be moved too, except they don't have much in common with all the things in the second pile. So we need to create a miscellaneous pile for all those things that are not directly connected with any of the first things in either pile and once you have a miscellaneous pile everything can fit in that pile and the purpose of classifying and sorting things is no longer valid - we cannot find anything because everything is an unclassified mess.
 
The "Art Rock" categories like Heavy, Eclectic and Crossover were never miscellaneous piles, they had a purpose and an intent - we all may disagree on what that initial intent was and the rational for adding bands into those categories will have evolved as those categories grew (and the personnel adding bands into them changed) but they are still classified categories whose definitions extend beyond the dictionary definition/etymology of just their names.
 
As already stated - all Progressive Rock is eclectic, but that is in the adjective use of the word, we must use caution when trying to use it as a noun.


Edited by Dean - January 13 2013 at 07:37


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rdtprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2013 at 06:51
If we start changing every old band from a genre to another because of the evolution in their sound, we'll have a lot of work to do. Especially if we realize that some bands have on their albums songs of different styles. The latest Echolyn's cd has a couple of symphonic songs. I am ok with symphonic, because it's the way i want to remember them... I am not too good with labels, genres, i leave that to the specialist...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Federico95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2013 at 04:20
I think that both definitions are correct... But maybe they should be changed to Eclectic because even if they don't change fifty genres across a single song, every album is a world apart: the first three are Symphonic, the EP (now I don't remember the name) is Folk, Mei has strong classical influences, The End Is Beautiful has Funk, Jazz and Metal influences and the last one is something like Prog Rock meets Alternative/Post-Rock... The best thing to do would be to give a genre for each album but the whole website should be revolutioned for that, so maybe we should just leave the things how they are Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2013 at 23:24
Originally posted by The Truth The Truth wrote:

I'd say eclectic too. *cough*
 
lol that aint THE TRUTH Wink You must have been smokin' something strange, maybe your scarf and the others their socks. Because Echolyn is crossoverprog and since when is crossover, eclectic?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Truth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2013 at 23:10
I'd say eclectic too. *cough*
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