Comparing prog from different countries

And so I want to know - how much relationship is there between a country's prog and their own classical and folk music traditions (I'm thinking mostly of Europe here, so I'm leaving out jazz/ blues and the US)? And if you like one, do you find that you usually like the other? That assumes that there is a strong relationship, but it seems that relationships varies a lot depending on the country. Musicians from some countries are quite open to outside influences (scandinavian countries, for example) and, perhaps without strong traditions of their own, are relatively free to experiment, mix and match, etc. The result is often exciting music. Other countries, like Austria, have very strong classical music traditions and I don't even know if they have any prog bands at all!  I mean, that seems to be the conservative extreme there.

German and Italian prog bands write music that to me reflects their country's  classical and folk traditions. But the French don't seem to, at least not that I've heard. I'd be interested to know if I am wrong, because I love French classical music but not their prog. In most cases, however, if I like one, I like the other.

And then there is the UK. :) The grand masters of prog don't have the classical tradition to draw upon compared to countries on the continent. But they absorbed everything over the eons and have a harmonic sensibility that possibly they got from the French??? Is that why I love French classical music and UK prog??  

Maybe this is why French prog never developed along the same lines out of fear that others would accuse it of sounding like the UK.. :)

aldri7

Not quite true. That is why we have a search facility.

Snowdog,  yes I did try searching on this but without keywords that would really stand out, I didn't get very far..

One might expect that there might be a similarity in how German and Scandinavian prog sounds. I base this on the fact that they share a lot of cultural heritage, ethnic ties etc. But they don't sound anything alike. Sumdeus mentioned that the Germans with Krautrock were consciously trying to develop a style they could call their own, something that no one could accuse of sounding like the Brits or anyone else. I have always felt that that is true also. While on the other hand, the Scandinavians don't seem to have this issue. They borrow liberally from the UK and US while adding to their own traditions. I have always had an extremely high regard for the Scandinavians (Terje Rypdal was enormous  with me) because of how accepting they are of dissonances and complexity in their prog and jazz, something that really sets them apart from the Germans. So overall Krautrock and Scandinavian (OK, Swedish I'm thinking mostly) prog represent opposite poles from the standpoint of simplicity vs complexity. With Krautrock you get a stripped down prog and its noteworthy to me that the Germans have gone down this path before, rejecting atonal Viennese classical music for example a hundred years ago in favor of a more direct and simple music more popular with the masses. It is tempting to suggest that the Germans may have never felt totally comfortable with trends towards increasing harmonic complexity in music, owing to the possibility that it threatened to some extent their own heritage (Bach, Hayden, Handel, Beethoven, Wagner etc).  Also, a lot of the characteristics of Krautrock (repetitive motifs etc) can be found in German progressive electronic music (tangerine dream, etc) also.

And i guess I also wasn't aware that "Kraut" and "Krautrock" are terms that arose first in Britain and are somewhat derogatory in origin. The term "kraut" was first used around the time of WWI. The German's don't use that term to describe themselves, and so I wonder if they have another term for their own music and did they eventually accept "Krautrock" or do they see this as a put down. I would think it would not still get used if there were too many complaints :)

And as for the French. The poor French.:)  I always felt that maybe they were caught flat footed when the whole rock thing evolved in the 60's. It was all coming from the UK across the channel, and with their natural inclination to not want to be seen as copying anything the Brits do, they were left to flounder which they did. And so while Germany evolved their own prog school with a fairly coherent style, Zeuhl music is a hodgepodge - bizarre, jazzy, atonal, furious at times, but often sounding not much more like someone is just angry about having been left in the dust by the Americans and Brits when they have such a glorious musical heritage of their own (which curiously they don't tap into).  And listed among the French Zeuhl bands are a fair number of Japanese ones - why does this all sound sort of anarchic and slightly cheesy to me while the Scandinavians made really impressive use of jazz influences? I hope I don't insult any fans of french prog, but I guess I still don't quite get it..(OK, I like magma and also find Eider Stellaire and Potemkine to be quite good). But my overall impression of the French is that maybe at no time was there a single individual or band with the right vision and respect for their history to guide them in a unique direction suitable to French culture as a whole. Zeuhl feels like subversive, jazzy music from the underground with quirky atonal qualities having artistic pretentions. Magma founder Christian Vender drew inspiration from Coltraine and was the son of a jazz musician. That Magma went on to lead future generations of French proggers rather than a band more grounded in french culture and history is something I feel is unfortunate...

aldri7

Few examples:

Devetka - based on the Macedonian folk song "So maki sum se rodila"

Aber dojde donke - based on the folk song with the same name

Bistra voda - based on a folk song with a similar title, "Da sum bistra voda"

I hope I don't offend other people from the Balkans by claiming these songs are Macedonian, I could be wrong as they could be Bulgarian or Serbian.

 

Further, those bands were huge on the continent, in the case of Genesis before they were in Britain.

I don't find it irritating either, but I did at first.....it was an acquired taste for me...

thanks for correcting me on the Englsh vs British..

aldri7