Comparing prog from different countries |
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aldri7
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 09 2013 Status: Offline Points: 114 |
Posted: January 22 2013 at 20:32 | |
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 24 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 8043 |
Posted: January 22 2013 at 20:39 | |
^hey, right on! Papillon is their best, and is woefully overlooked. On side two, they quote Vivaldi, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky in a really cool, ELPish kind of way-love it!
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twosteves
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 01 2007 Location: NYC/Rhinebeck Status: Offline Points: 4064 |
Posted: February 19 2013 at 23:07 | |
when Jon ANderson was asked years ago why so much good music came out of England back in the 60's and 70's he said that in England back in those days there was not too many options--after high school you went to university or a factory---so lot's of guys got guitars, drums or any insturment and looked for a third option---rock band.
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer Joined: May 28 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10377 |
Posted: February 20 2013 at 06:11 | |
Gong, who originated in France, definitely have some relationship to Krautrock
as to the name "Krautrock": it is actually being used in Germany too, like a trademark Edited by BaldJean - February 20 2013 at 06:12 |
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 6695 |
Posted: February 20 2013 at 22:54 | |
Great thread!!
In the USA, I've noticed that many of our prog bands seem to "ape" Yes overall....including Starcastle (who were friends of mine), Glass Hammer and numerous others. Very irritating, although sometimes they pull off something that is genuinely innovative. GH's newest is quite good and not as derivative. However, we Yanks do have many very good jazz-rock fusion outfits, and seem to make very good contributions to this genre. Chick Corea and his band's many offshoots (Stanley Clarke, Al Dimeola etc.) comes to mind. It's not that we lack the talent, but we don't have good English sensibilities! Right, Laz? Edited by cstack3 - February 20 2013 at 22:55 |
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Icarium
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: March 21 2008 Location: Tigerstaden Status: Offline Points: 34050 |
Posted: February 21 2013 at 02:47 | |
I have to be honest abou this, and that is that i also think there is also a influence from bard traditions in prog as well,in both English prog and also Scandinavian, the bards ballad style, as ballads is a different style as folk and classical is different, styles, and ballad style is very popular amon the early prog, the telling of a story, of romantic and epic realations,
to me Ian Anderson ans Peter Gabriel, were to me modern bards (court bards). with their flutes, or lutes, or acoustic guitar. |
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Metalmarsh89
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 15 2013 Location: Oregon, USA Status: Offline Points: 2673 |
Posted: February 21 2013 at 10:42 | |
Drums have played a major role in Native American music and dance for centuries, but Government views and relations with Native Americans lead me to believe that is not where they get the inspiration for these steady beats you speak of. I don't know much about Native American culture, but because drums and vocals are often the primary instruments used, I would believe they do all sorts of interesting, fun things with it as opposed to a steady tapping. I would be more inclined to believe that while drumming could have been primarily adapted from these other lesser developed countries you speak of, I think that modern western culture merely adopted such habits from the eastern cultures who expanded west hundreds of years ago (Spain, France, England, etc.). |
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Metalmarsh89
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 15 2013 Location: Oregon, USA Status: Offline Points: 2673 |
Posted: February 21 2013 at 10:52 | |
You could make a similar argument from the other side of the spectrum as well. For me, my liking of prog music came from a disinterest in popular music. I know absolutely nothing about classical music, not because I have no interest, but because I haven't been exposed to it or raised around it. |
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brainstormer
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 20 2008 Location: Seattle, WA Status: Offline Points: 887 |
Posted: February 21 2013 at 11:24 | |
I think, for me, this is one of the best topics to ever come up on Prog Archives. It brings
prog out of the "high schooler" mentality that is frequently found when it's discussed online, and into something a little bit more like academic musicology.
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aldri7
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 09 2013 Status: Offline Points: 114 |
Posted: February 22 2013 at 08:26 | |
thank you.. Since I started this thread, I've found some French prog that I like. I think there were two bands, but I can't remember the name of one now. The other is "Lord of Mushrooms" which is a pretty interesting band to me. Its prog metal but with more adventurous harmonies and some neo prog influences (or was it porcupine tree?). I would really like prog metal better if they explored darker harmonies more. "The missing Link" and "Circles on the Water" by Lord of Mushrooms get into that realm a little. Prog metal should be fertile ground for diminished scale harmonies or shifting minors etc. It would suit the subject matter if its more gothic anyway. So, hats off to Lord of Mushrooms for not only elevating my attitude towards prog metal but also French prog in general. aldri7 Edited by aldri7 - February 22 2013 at 08:30 |
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aldri7
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 09 2013 Status: Offline Points: 114 |
Posted: February 22 2013 at 08:41 | |
Back in 1970 or so, I think there were a lot of people, myself included, who were disinterested in the popular music that was coming out at the time. I really was looking for an alternative to bluesy rock which was all the rage then. And so along comes "Yes" and it was like the perfect answer to all my prayers. Yes and Genesis, etc at the time tapped into something, a desperate need I think - I mean there must have been lots of people like me who were dissatisfied and not buying Jimi Hendrix albums. I'm listening to "Lord of Mushrooms" as I write this (getting back to my earlier post). Man, these guys go way beyond prog metal where they are listed here. I'd suggest a different category for them, maybe eclectic prog or heavy prog. I don't know, but its just that guys are going to miss some great music if they pass over prog metal on their way to other categories! And now, I am going to make what is probably a pretty ridiculous assertion. I hope you will pardon me anyway but I have this strange need to be able to find some French prog that pays homage to French classical music. I guess its because I like French classical music so much (it was played in my house a lot when I was a kid growing up)... And so, at about the 2:00 minute mark in Lord of the Mushroom's "Warmth in the Wilderness", the melody ascends and goes through several unexpected chord changes as it climbs to a "B". And when I first heard it, I immediately flashed back to Ravel's "Daphnis et Chloe" which doesn't sound anything like this really, but at the same time - there is this ascending passage there also right before the return to the main theme which also twists through a series of unexpected chord changes and.........could it be......? Why would I have flashed back to Ravel? But that I did that really gets me admiring this band, whether or not they were consciously thinking of Ravel or maybe they don't know squat about Ravel. :) I haven't a clue, but its fun doing this kind of detective work anyway.. And I love having Spotify now on my computer. :) I can call up Daphnis et Chloe and play it alongside Lord of Mushrooms at the click of a mouse......bliss....and the passage I referred to in Ravel comes at about the 2:45 mark compared to the 2:00 mark for "Warmth in the Wilderness". Given this version of Daphnis et Chloe is played on the slow side, then the two passages occur at about the same point in the music. And to put the icing on the cake, Ravel's passage also ascends to a "B" !! aldri7
Edited by aldri7 - February 22 2013 at 09:11 |
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23098 |
Posted: February 22 2013 at 08:50 | |
I am going to go off on my own tangent here, as it seems I probably should've been here for the start....
Anyway, I find some of the South American/Portuguese prog bands to have a similar quality to them as found in the RPI scene from around the same time, which translates into the start 70s or something to that effect. Here's Quarteto 1111, which I absolutely adore. It wasn't until I looked the album up on PA I found out about it not being an RPI release: |
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- Douglas Adams |
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aldri7
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 09 2013 Status: Offline Points: 114 |
Posted: February 22 2013 at 09:30 | |
I took a instant liking to Dan Ar Braz so thank for the recommendation. There is this mix of fusion almost or smooth jazz (acoustic alchemy) with celtic music which I liked a lot. More listening needed here :) They are not listed here, but its not really prog. THis is the type of band I NEVER would have found on my own :) So thanks to the forums.... aldri7
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 6695 |
Posted: February 22 2013 at 14:41 | |
NebelNest from France are outstanding, look into them! http://nebelnest.com/ I saw them in Chicago, they were excellent! Not sure if they are still active, this website is pretty dated. They seemed to channel the English prog spirit a bit, reminding me more than a little of LTIA era King Crimson. It was a fantastic show, and I was very happy to meet them (this was about September 1999).
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lazland
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13129 |
Posted: February 23 2013 at 13:23 | |
Only just seen this Now, if only we could all share some of those sensibilities!
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
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aldri7
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 09 2013 Status: Offline Points: 114 |
Posted: February 23 2013 at 20:55 | |
speaking of prog from the USA - when I came here, I pretty much expected that Orchestra Luna, a 70's prog band from Boston, would be listed here. Its not. Sometimes they just go by "Luna". Anyway, they remained active through the 1980's and went through a lot of personnel changes. But they never were more than just a regional band. OVer at Grooveshark I found some of their early tracks which I listened to eagerly since I never had actually heard their music. It sounded almost like firesign theatre put to music. Very different. Raucous, irreverent, but not always to my liking musically. I wonder if anyone else knows of them here. I knew one of their guitar players as I went to hight school with him.
aldri7
Edited by aldri7 - February 23 2013 at 20:56 |
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 03 2007 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 16913 |
Posted: February 23 2013 at 21:16 | |
Interesting....if anyone wants to hear you can Google "Orchestra Luna 1974" and it will pop up the whole album. Here's a sample |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16006 |
Posted: March 02 2013 at 15:52 | |
All you have to do is hear Edgar Froese's words on the Krautrock special ... you will reword this and understand it a lot better!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16006 |
Posted: March 02 2013 at 16:13 | |
Excellent ... I've always tried to put that in perspective if I could, but the history of music is not as good in a book as Jensen's History of Art is ... one of my favorite books of all time. I really think that we need a couple more folks in here that work/mention history a bit more ... for perspective.
It's been a dry season, man ... us here in PDX/ Vancouver are about 3 inches behind normal rain fall for this year already with only 8 weeks gone by! The water table is still an inch up for the water year, though ... so the salmon might still make the trip up the river!
Edited by moshkito - March 02 2013 at 16:20 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16006 |
Posted: March 02 2013 at 16:22 | |
Aginor ... that's way too educated and knowledgeable for a supposedly progressive board. Now stop that or people will think that we are insulting their intelligence!!!! It will be tomorrow of the day after, and Kanye West will be the next bard! .... and Gil Scott Heron, just another nobody!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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