Progarchives.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: stop the "Neo" prog label ?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum SearchSearch  Calendar   Register Register  Login Login

Topic Closedstop the "Neo" prog label ?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 121314
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
Aussie-Byrd-Brother View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Rock Progressivo Italiano Team

Joined: October 12 2011
Location: Melb, Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3763
Direct Link To This Post Topic: stop the "Neo" prog label ?
    Posted: January 17 2013 at 05:14
Originally posted by Gerinski

If anything he should be happy to be recognized as one of the founders of a new sub-genre of Prog, nothing can take that away from him.
 

That is a really good point! He should be proud that his band is one of the founders of that sub-genre, and one of the first names people think of (hmmm, for better I worse, depending on their opinion, I guess??) when that description is given!
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Albion
Online Status: Online
Posts: 32733
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2013 at 05:12
Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by Snow Dog

I'm yet to hear Suppers Ready on Dark Matter. I don't understand the connection
Oh, I think Harvest of Souls is a clear musical and structural nod towards Supper's Ready.

It goes over my head then.
Well it's not a carbon copy if that's what you're expecting, just as Grendel isn't a carbon copy of Supper's Ready either


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman
Back to Top
Gerinski View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Belgium
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3285
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2013 at 05:08
I don't really share his opinion about the term Neo, but I share his opinion that there is no reason for calling Anglagard any more "genuine" Prog than IQ is.
Neo is just a tag name, what people say about it is something else and has nothing to do with the name.

If some critics or other people critisized the use of modern synths and electronic drums and appreciated the comeback of Hammonds and Moogs, and considered Anglagard as "genuine prog" and IQ as "fake prog", they would still have said so, which difference does it make that what they critisized was called Neo-Prog or New Wave of Progressive Rock?

What does he have a problem with, is it really with the term Neo? or is it the fact that he does not agree with this concept of "genuine" and "fake" Prog? (which I certainly do not agree either).

His dislike of the term Neo comes apparently from his perception that the term Neo has a negative connotation, which I personally do not see, I like Neo and I see nothing negative in this name.
If anything he should be happy to be recognized as one of the founders of a new sub-genre of Prog, nothing can take that away from him.


 


Back to Top
Aussie-Byrd-Brother View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Rock Progressivo Italiano Team

Joined: October 12 2011
Location: Melb, Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3763
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2013 at 05:08
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by Snow Dog

I'm yet to hear Suppers Ready on Dark Matter. I don't understand the connection

Oh, I think Harvest of Souls is a clear musical and structural nod towards Supper's Ready.

`Harvest Of Souls', that's what I meant, not the whole album! Without going and grabbing it off the shelf I kind of assumed it was the title track, thanks for the clarification Dean!
Back to Top
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 32925
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2013 at 05:05
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by Snow Dog

I'm yet to hear Suppers Ready on Dark Matter. I don't understand the connection
Oh, I think Harvest of Souls is a clear musical and structural nod towards Supper's Ready.

It goes over my head then.
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
Back to Top
Josef_K View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 15 2011
Location: Stockholm
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 147
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2013 at 05:03

I have personally never understood this argument that using old keys makes you a 70s prog rock wannabe.

Using a Mellotron M400 for choirs is as much Genesis ripoff as using 12-string guitars, I don't even see how you can debate that. It simply IS so. And don't tell me the Mellotron had a more characteristic sound than a 12-string guitar, I won't buy that as it simply isn't true.
 
Using whatever gear you like in order to reproduce a similar sound to that of Genesis/Crimson/Yes or whatever, is of course not original at all though. It's not the gear that defines your style, it's your songwriting and playing.
 
Therefore, I would further argue that to "re-invent" prog one does not have to change the gear around, in fact that could end up being as uninventive as possible if you lack original song ideas. If you do have original song ideas then your worries are over, you WILL sound original. For me this discussion really is as simple as that. The only addition would be that some song ideas require some gear (Peter Gabriels "Melt" would have been tricky without a reverb unit ^^) so of course the gear defines the style in a way. But I think that you can complete an idea using various gear and the end result will still be as original as in any other gear configuration.


Edited by Josef_K - January 17 2013 at 05:06
Leave the past to burn,
At least that's been his own

- Peter Hammill
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Albion
Online Status: Online
Posts: 32733
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2013 at 05:02
Originally posted by Snow Dog

I'm yet to hear Suppers Ready on Dark Matter. I don't understand the connection
Oh, I think Harvest of Souls is a clear musical and structural nod towards Supper's Ready.


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman
Back to Top
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 32925
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2013 at 04:55
I'm yet to hear Suppers Ready on Dark Matter. I don't understand the connection
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
Back to Top
Aussie-Byrd-Brother View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Rock Progressivo Italiano Team

Joined: October 12 2011
Location: Melb, Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3763
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2013 at 04:50
I honestly wish some bands would stop looking at the term `Neo Prog' as being something negative, that it somehow belittles them and makes them less worthy.

I certainly never considered Pendragon, IQ, Marillion, Jadis etc to be `fake 80's prog', rather `new prog in the grand tradtion of the establishing 70's bands', that takes elements from those bands and gives them a modern makeover, as they incorporate those elements into their own original and distinctive ideas.

I think some people use the term `Neo' in a derogative and dismissive way, as in `Neo means rip-off/clones of better bands'. While some of the Neo bands have similarities to the golden age bands, I've always found they had more than enough unique personalities, arrangements and genre-pushing ideas to stand on their own, and there's endless Neo bands I love very each.

I also find the tag an easy way to suggest these bands to a new listener, in that `If you like early 70's Genesis, you might enjoy what X band is doing' etc.

Have to say, I don't think IQ/Orford/Nicholls helped their case by essentially REMAKING `Suppers Ready' on `Dark Matter', as much as I dearly love that album!

Edited by Aussie-Byrd-Brother - January 17 2013 at 04:51
Back to Top
Blacksword View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 11323
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2013 at 04:44
I don't care much for labels really, and I'm not a huge fan of so called 'neo-prog' but in its defence it is arguably more 'progressive' than acts that sought to sound like the bands of old through use of mellotrons etc. The neo bands of the 80's were using the technology of the day to re-interpret and re-invent prog rock, just as the classic prog bands used the technology of the day to re-interpret and re-invent rock music.

I guess the post neo prog bands who aimed to get back to that old sound are closer to being tribute acts. Specifically paying tribute to a time in music history, rather than paying tribute to specific bands. That's not to say they weren't writing good and worthy music.

This is why I have some sympathy for the view that bands like Radiohead are truly progressive, and are representative of where progressive rock is now. People don't have to like it, it's just how it is, in my humble opinion.
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
Back to Top
lucas View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 06 2004
Location: France
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7892
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2013 at 04:29
As you may know, Martin Orford of IQ is very unhappy of the tag allocated to the music he plays with IQ or Jadis, and in general to the prog rock scene that arose in the early eighties. He would prefer his music to be labeled "New Wave of Progressive Rock" as he feels offended when the press qualified the bands of the late nineties as "genuine" progressive rock (beacause of the use of vintage keyboards) as opposed to the "neo" progressive rock scene (due to the use of modern keyboards or electronic drums).

Here are Martin orford's views on the "neo" label :
http://www.dprp.net/vision/index.php?id=13

I find funny the way he considers the return of vintage keys and mellotrons in modern prog bands (maybe the "old" sounding keys on 'dark matter' was a way to get more respect from the press and be considered as a "genuine" prog band).

Do you share his views about the use of the "neo" label (fake 80's prog vs today's genuine prog) ? and do you also consider that old-sounding keys don't really have their place anymore in the "2nd" New Wave of Progressive Rock (mid nineties onward) ?
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 121314

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.69
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.641 seconds.